Hustle + Gather Maggie Kane
[00:00:00] Courtney: We're so excited to have you here today.
[00:00:02] Maggie Kane: I'm so excited to meet here. Thanks for having me.
[00:00:04] Courtney: Yeah. Awesome.
[00:00:06] So we want to start by just kinda like diving into, we know a little bit about it, but for our listeners who don't, a little bit about your background and how you got to Starting, A Place at the Table.
[00:00:17] Maggie Kane: Yes.
[00:00:17] Maggie Kane: well, thanks for asking. I, yeah, I feel very lucky to do what I do. I love what I do. I, years ago, I guess I go back all the way. I was born in Raleigh, yes, born in Raleigh. I was born at Rex, no, I won't go that far back. but born in Raleigh. I'm, I'm one of those people, people say all the time, I'm a unicorn, but I think like more and more people are staying in Raleigh, so I think it's becoming less of us.
[00:00:41] So I don't, I don't know if we can be calling unicorns anymore. but I was born in Raleigh. my name is Maggie Kane and I did not go to Broughton. There's a Maggie Kane from Broughton who was
[00:00:50] Maggie Kane: a professional tennis player. So, I'm not a professional tennis player and I did not go to Broughton. but I grew up in the Wake Forest area.
[00:00:56] I have a twin sister, I have a brother. and [00:01:00] we all live locally and, and have stayed local. And, while I was in school, I was the opposite of my sister and my brother. I wanted to, get out of Raleigh. I kept thinking, I gotta move, I gotta go, very lucky to have studied abroad in high school. high school was really hard for me.
[00:01:15] I truly disliked it. I was made fun of a lot. It was like a very hard time. so if anyone else out there was made fun of in high school, I can, I can definitely resonate with that.
[00:01:24] so it, with that, I wanted to leave, I wanted to go somewhere else. so study abroad in, in high school, went, moved to Italy for a year, lived with a host family and it was, it was awesome.
[00:01:34] learned a lot about myself and came back and with that thought, I wanna keep traveling, I wanna keep going. had applied for schools out outside of North Carolina, but realized that in-state tuition was, was a lot more affordable and, exactly. So, went up to Appalachian and that, I love the mountains I love to hike, so I was going to app, that's where I was going. I was like, yep, I'm a, I'm a boonie, here we go. but went up in March, and it was negative [00:02:00] two degrees raining, and I said, I will not survive here it is too damn gold.
[00:02:05] Courtney: So, you are not a boonie.
[00:02:05] Maggie Kane: So, I'm not a boonie, no, I'm like a wannabee boonie, but I love 90 degrees. Um.
[00:02:11] Courtney: You’re a fair weather boonie.
[00:02:12] Maggie Kane: I know.
[00:02:12] Dana: Mm-hmm.
[00:02:12] Maggie Kane: I like, like the perfect, like August, you know, September, October, beautiful, October's a little chilly, but, September. but I went, I, I, so I also applied to NC State and end up loving NC State, went to NC State for four years. while I'm there, I'm still thinking I'm gonna move.
[00:02:28] I went to school for international studies, business and Italian, so thought I could go continue my Italian, move abroad, teach English somewhere, marry, I mean, truly, I just wanted to marry hot Italian and drink a ton of red wine.
[00:02:38] Dana: Yeah. that's totally
[00:02:39] Maggie Kane: the, the, that jury's still out. It could happen one day
[00:02:43] It's still on the list. but I, I ended up in school, I, I got to be involved with a couple different groups where speakers would come, and speak about different social justice things going on in town. And got involved in a day shelter that was opening. it was a shelter that was open [00:03:00] in the day, hence the name, no one slept there at night. But it was a shelter where folks experiencing homelessness and experiencing poverty could come, get out, get outta the cold weather, get outta the hot weather, get a cup of coffee, have a place to be.
[00:03:12] so I heard this speaker and I just immediately felt this pull to get involved. I went, visited a day shelter. It was opening, that same week, or the week after and, and kind of never looked back.
[00:03:23] ended up spending a lot of time there. I, I ditched school a lot, which is funny. I was speaking to Peace, college students the other day and I said that, and I was like, oops, so sorry Dr. Ralph did not mean to say that, everyone needs to be in class.
[00:03:36] But I did, I, I just was falling, falling in love with the shelter and falling in love with the people I was meeting. so I was at the shelter and I graduated college and about 10 of them came to my college graduation.
[00:03:45] And it was in that moment where I just decided, I gotta stay here. I don't need to move abroad right now, there is work to be done in this city. I wanna continue these relationships with folks and so, I built a job, for myself at this day shelter. made no [00:04:00] money, right our first jobs and. Um.
[00:04:01] But was just lucky to one, lucky to have graduate college and then two, lucky to, have this job, a job that I loved. And ran, ran this shelter and got to know, so many folks on the street, so many folks experiencing poverty and getting, you know, for me, getting to know people is done through food. And so I would go and eat with folks experiencing homelessness or experience this extreme poverty. And that meant eating at the soup kitchen a lot. And in Raleigh, we have a fantastic soup kitchen.
[00:04:28] the soup kitchen feeds about 300 people in an hour every day, they do incredible work they're really fighting food insecurity that we have here. But it would, what I saw was so different than my life experience. We'd stand in line, we'd get handed a plate, we'd have to eat really quickly. We couldn't spend time sitting at a table together, because they're trying to feed a lot of people.
[00:04:47] And, and so I, I just decided, I, I, you know, I wanna start taking folks out for meals, I wanna spend longer with them. and so I started taking folks experiencing homelessness out for meals. and we would go to Golden Corral a [00:05:00] lot. And my privilege that I grew up with my privilege, said we we're going to Golden Corral because they're hungry. Right?
[00:05:06] They're sleeping outside at night, they wanna eat a lot of food. and my friend John said, no, Maggie, that's not why, like, don't say that, that's not why at all. we, I've chosen Golden Crowd the past three times to come and eat for two reasons, because here we have choice he said, everyone makes every choice for me from what I eat to where I sleep. Here I get to have choice. I can choose if I want to have, a black bean melt or if I want to have a waffle. Right?
[00:05:28] Maggie Kane: I get to choose. and then the second thing is I feel seen here. He said, Maggie, living in poverty people don't see me, they don't see me as normal. I'm not human, they walk right by me. Here someone greets me at the door they acknowledge me they come around, check if I need a refill on something, they say bye as I'm leaving.
[00:05:46] He said, I feel seen here, and it was in that moment where I said, we've got to create something where one, everyone has choice and two people feel seen, people feel, people feel heard, people have dignity. And a place where, [00:06:00] frankly, like folks in my life, my privileged life could meet so many of these amazing people I was meeting a place that would bring everyone together.
[00:06:08] And while I grew up in Raleigh, and I love Raleigh. Right? and, and will forever love Raleigh. It was at a time, where Raleigh was so divided where it felt like people with money were going one way and people without money were going the other way. And how do we create a place downtown where people, that that divide doesn't exist? So, I will stop talking cause I just rambled for three minutes and y'all had to listen to me.
[00:06:29] Courtney: No, No, I think that's so great. Yeah. I mean, I, I love how we are, adjunct professors at Meredith and it's really, really neat to see in our class we teach intro to special events like when people kind of like declare for hospitality and you can say, oh wow, this is like something that I never even thought of as a possibility.
[00:06:47] Cause they'll come in as business majors or marketing majors or whatever. But I really love this. I have a passion for it to kind of and that kind of college. I don't know, kind of growing, learning, finding time to like really find what it is that [00:07:00] you're passionate about and pursue it, I think is amazing and rare, honestly.
[00:07:03] Maggie Kane: Oh.
[00:07:04] Dana: I think, I think that's what I love about it too, is like just the boldness of it. And I think realizing that, and I think it says a lot to probably how you grew up and the people that believed in you that like, I can do this. Like I can make a change in the world. And I feel like there's so many people and I feel that way sometimes now. Like I feel very helpless. Like, there's not like much I can do other than cast a vote, which is very important. You should go vote, vote, but
[00:07:26] Maggie Kane: Go vote.
[00:07:27] Dana: it feels really inspiring to say like, I see this need. I see this, this, had this passion to help and I wanna help. And I think really ultimately what your story tells us is, tells you is that it's about exactly what you said, bringing two people together. Cause I think for so long we spend time in our own bubbles that we're, we can't even understand like anyone else in a different bubble than us.
[00:07:56] Maggie Kane: Absolutely.
[00:07:57] Dana: You know.
[00:07:57] Maggie Kane: And we hang with people that are similar than us.
[00:07:59] Dana: Yes.
[00:07:59] Maggie Kane: And [00:08:00] until we know right, like, thank you for saying that. But I, I, I feel truly the, the fortunate one, I had so many people that, that walked in along the way that taught me the things that I, you know, knew then and know, now.
[00:08:14] Courtney: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:14] Maggie Kane: so it, it is.
[00:08:16] Courtney: it's
[00:08:17] Maggie Kane: life's about relationships and community and, and I, and, am making people feel seen. So, I, I feel like that is, that is my life work and I will forever do this work.
[00:08:27] Dana: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:27] Courtney: So, I, I think going back there, so obviously. you're this, young whipper snubber taking people out to Golden Corral. And I think there's a big jump from that.
[00:08:37] Maggie Kane: Yes.
[00:08:37] Courtney: To like opening a restaurant. So, like how, like how did you get there? That seems like there's had to have been like a few transitional phases during that time.
[00:08:44] Maggie Kane: Yes, absolutely.
[00:08:46] so for all who do not know, A Place at the Table is Raleigh's first, pay what you can restaurant. so what that means is when you walk in, it looks and feels like a regular restaurant.
[00:08:58] we've got fun photos on the [00:09:00] wall. we've got, you know, big community tables, other tables, you smell good food, you hear cool music, and, and you would not know we are any different than any other restaurant. and then you get up to the register and you start to see some information signs, explainer signs, that say pay what you can.
[00:09:17] So, all of our prices on the menu are pay what you can so you can ch, and they're all suggested pricing, so you can choose to pay that suggested price. You can pay more and pay it forward for someone else you can pay less, because we know some weeks are harder than others and all you can do is pay less or you can pay by volunteering with us.
[00:09:32] so that, I just wanted to, to preface that cause I skipped over that part. but at Golden Corral, right, um. And we are, um. I'm sitting there thinking like, how can we create a place where everyone can come together? I started researching, I researched everything, to your point from whether your biology books are relevant or not. Like I rented, I went to the library and I rented books on restaurants and nonprofits and social enterprises. and then I, then I just got on Google. Like [00:10:00] frankly, Google was my best friend. I googled everything.
[00:10:01] Maggie Kane: and found the pay, which you can system found that at the time there were over 60 pay, which you can restaurants across the country instead of other places other cities can do this than Raleigh can too. so again, googling, googling everything. went to visit the closest pay what you can restaurant, which ironically led me back to Boone, North Carolina. isn't that funny? F.A.R.M. Cafe, Feed All Regardless of Means is a fantastic pay what you can restaurant on King Street. Have y'all been?
[00:10:29] Dana: I I, I haven't been, but I've seen it. Oh yeah, I've passed by it.
[00:10:32] Maggie Kane: Oh, it's so great. It's an old diner, old pharmacy. And, went to visit and went to visit about six different times and brought different people with me, and I think I wanted them to say, no, we can't do this in Raleigh. But I would ask them all, I said, should we do this in Raleigh. And everyone said, yes, let's do it.
[00:10:49] I do kind of think they were like, I wonder if she, this, this 22-year-old is actually gonna make this happen. but everyone said it. It's a, it's a great idea. Let's make it happen. and [00:11:00] so this is in 2014, came back after bringing those six different people out, out there to see it, asking a ton of questions. Yeah.
[00:11:07] the folks there, they are the reason we are here today. I am forever grateful, for their guidance and leadership and mentorship, in, in what they built, to what we built and brought it back and started just, I mean, honestly just started like hitting the pavement and working on it. people at the time called me Maggie Kane, queen of meetings. I was probably in three or four meetings a day talking about, A Place at the table. I drink more coffee than I drink now, and I am in a coffee shop and I drink a pot a day.
[00:11:35] so I, really was just getting to know the community, seeing what people thought this place could look like, telling the story. and we slowly just started building it.
[00:11:46] Maggie Kane: This is not me.
[00:11:47] This is a community effort, and so every single day would meet someone that would wanna get involved, someone that would provide their expertise. and we just started pulling it together a little by little. I [00:12:00] was working in bars at night. I had quit my job at the time cause I, I, I could not like function, doing a full-time job in a day shelter, a, and building this every single day, having all these meetings.
[00:12:11] we started doing information sessions, so started telling the community about it. going to different places, bars, churches, nonprofits, and just telling the story. We started, once a month going to a different nonprofit and, and bringing food and just saying, hey, do y'all want this? What do you think about a pay what you can restaurant?
[00:12:30] Maggie Kane: And four years later I, I have met people that were in those nonprofits that have come up to me and come to eat at the, at, A Place at the Table and said, I remember when you came four years ago. Right? So we just started to just to kind of, again, like I said, tell the story, and bring people to the literal table, and hear what they hear, what they thought, and what they wanted to see.
[00:12:48] we eventually started to realize that we needed to live our mission out, so we started to pop up places and do a pay, which you can brunch.
[00:12:55] Courtney: So, before you opened the actual restaurant?
[00:12:58] Maggie Kane: so this was in [00:13:00] 2016, we started for about a year. We called it second Saturday brunch. and we brought people to brunch, or we invited people in, in, to this pay what you can brunch.
[00:13:11] And, just saw that it, saw if it would work. We, we tested it out. we had non, folks from different nonprofits, folks from around town, folks from, all these information sessions we were meeting. come to pay what they can for, for brunch. so we started in 2016, we had about 50 people come out. It was my mom probably, and all my friends.
[00:13:30] and by the end of it, about a year later, about that. You know, the 12th, we did it once a month, the 12th, pay what you can brunch, we had about 450 people come. And so that's when we realized, okay, people want this. at the same time, we're on social media, just telling the story, not knowing if we're ever gonna open, but telling the story, getting people to, to, to get involved, to come, to be a part of it. and then in 2018 we opened.
[00:13:56] Courtney: So were you able to like, I am totally like business minded here.
[00:13:59] Maggie Kane: Yeah. Tell me.
[00:13:59] Courtney: Did you have like donors, were you like funded, or were you able to like parlay some of your brunch profits into
[00:14:06] Maggie Kane: Great question.
[00:14:07] Courtney: Moving us into a restaurant, you made no money.
[00:14:08] Maggie Kane: No, we made no money..
[00:14:09] Maggie Kane: In all that time. we, in, so in 2017, I was seriously thinking, this is four years later of working on this, trying to build this, working multiple pay time, like part-time jobs wasn't paying myself, we had, we had, gotten all these people to get behind it, right?
[00:14:23] We had gotten restaurant experts and, and lawyers and, and all these different people with all these expertise to be involved. but we couldn't find a space. So, we couldn't find a space. We had no money. And it's like that chicken and egg egg thing, of, you don't have money.
[00:14:36] so you can't actually afford a space, but you don't have a space
[00:14:39] Courtney: so, you're not gonna make the money.
[00:14:40] Maggie Kane: So, you're not gonna make any money. Right. and, so, I, we finally had been working with York Properties over the years and forever grateful for York Properties for getting us, into this space. But they called us and said, we think we may have a space for you.
[00:14:53] Maggie Kane: So, we looked at this awesome space where we are now, and, and we, decided let's, we're gonna [00:15:00] take this leap. So, we as a team, took over this space and then we called on all of the folks that we had met with, you know, Maggie Kane, queen meetings, all those people.
[00:15:10] All at all the folks that had come to our information sessions that we had gotten on Listserv's everyone on our social media, every corporate sponsor we had, every corporate, co, company that we had met that could potentially be a corporate sponsor. We called on all of them and said, hey, we have a space, would you be, would you be involved? And we fundraise what we needed to fundraise in about two months overnight.
[00:15:31] Courtney: Wow. Wow.
[00:15:31] Maggie Kane: so I always say, no, we weren't fundraising, we were friend-raising.
[00:15:35] Maggie Kane: We were building friends.
[00:15:36] Maggie Kane: I stole that from someone. I have no idea who, okay, I wish I could cause I quote them. but we were fundraising and building what we have today. And I tell you A Place at the Table is not me. And I said this a couple minutes ago, it's not me, it is this community.
[00:15:49] Every single person who dined, donated, volunteered over those years showed up that in that moment, that those first couple days that we were there, and they dine, donated, and [00:16:00] volunteered with us, and they still do to this day.
[00:16:02] and it is the reason we, we are here. It's, it's those friends that we made over the years and those friends we continue to make.
[00:16:08] Dana: Yeah. So, I, I think, and I've, so we did the fundraiser.
[00:16:13] Maggie Kane: Thank you for coming by the way.
[00:16:14] Dana: Yeah, yeah, yeah. and you could totally see that and you could feel it when you hear people talk about it. One, I think, I don't know, I was shocked, you said you were made fun of in school because if people could see you now, you were like a mini celebrity at the fundraiser. Like, have you met Maggie? Have you met Maggie? but, I think, and you said it a couple of times, that you've, you've built this community, which I really think, um. We could call you a master team builder cause really that community is ultimately just a team that you have created to, to,
[00:16:44] Courtney: facilitate this vision.
[00:16:45] Dana: Yeah.
[00:16:46] And to buy into this value, cause this isn't a value everybody has. They don't necessarily just like, you know, your friend experience, they don't value people experiencing homelessness. Right.
[00:16:55] Dana: How did you get peeped decide what people needed to be on your bus, and how [00:17:00] did you kind of get them to buy into those values and overall mission of A Place to the Table?
[00:17:05] Maggie Kane: Well, thank you for all for saying that. It was really kind of you. I actually feel lucky to be on the bus with all the awesome people, truly every day. That is like what I wake up thinking, I'm so lucky to do this work. I'm so lucky to have the folks in in, my life that make this happen every day. I'm so so lucky to have the staff and team that we have.
[00:17:23] but I guess I'll, I'll, I'll go back a couple years, right? in building this, I, I am such a believer in like entrepreneurship as not a one-person job, it It is a team job. and I, I, I feel that we are not, and I know we're not supposed to be good at everything. There is no way we can be good at everything.
[00:17:44] And, I truly don't feel good at anything, and I, but I know there are so many people that excel in, in their fields, right? And so, so I started to just think through what do we need to make this happen? Look, y'all, I, similar to someone else you had on, on a podcast that I was listening [00:18:00] to, they're like, I had to give up give up the books.
[00:18:01] Courtney: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:02] Maggie Kane: Like I had to give up [00:18:02] QuickBooks. That, that, shit was like awful yeah, and, and that's for me, like I, in 2014, I had no idea how to write a budget. Now obviously, I, I've figured all that out, but I like basically failed accounting in college. So, I found an accountant who excelled in accounting, loved accounting, it was their passion, and brought them to the table. I found someone who could read all of that boring nonprofit paperwork that doesn't make sense at all. That's 500 pages that we have to fill out that finds joy in doing that. And he came to the table and he, he is now still involved, right? So all these folks, like again, we are not supposed to be good at at all. You guys just gotta ask for help.
[00:18:42] So, I just asked for help, and was not afraid to ask for help. And then if someone said no, I asked again and again and again. And so, to this day, I'm asking those same people and eventually they'll say yes.
[00:18:52] but, yeah. And, and, I also think everyone is looking to be a part of something, everyone's looking for that purpose [00:19:00] and so, so ask for help the worst, they, so I asked for help cause the worst thing that they were gonna do was say no.
[00:19:05] And we just found that, that people were looking for that purpose and so they got involved. and then they brought people to the table and it's just right.
[00:19:14] It's like a, it's a umbrella down of like, like a tree down of, I invited one person and they invited one person. And then it became this huge, huge community of people bringing their expertise literally to the table, and, and their passions to the table. that then made, A Place to the Table happen.
[00:19:32] Dana: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:33] I think it's such a, like, such a great approach and I know that, like you're talking about building a nonprofit, right? So, at this point you are, I don't wanna say begging, but you're like, please come begging, please come.
[00:19:43] Maggie Kane: I had no idea what I was doing. Begging.
[00:19:45] Yes. But as a, as an employer, you're not necessarily begging for employees, but I love that. I think it's such a, a translatable skill and a concept of bringing people to your table. Cause I think that's so [00:20:00] lost amongst CEOs is they're just like, I'm gonna pay you this paycheck, you do this job, as opposed to saying like, hey, I hired you because you have this amazing skill that maybe I don't have, or I don't have the time to use. Right?
[00:20:12] Maggie Kane: Yes.
[00:20:12] Dana: And I wanna bring you to this table and have you be a part of this, you know, community, at the office.
[00:20:19] Maggie Kane: It's true. I didn't even talk about my staff. Our staff is like the bomb.com, they are so awesome. and they have so many more skills that I do not have. I, feel, I feel lucky. I learn from them every day and I think it's, I think it's giving them a voice one. Right?
[00:20:35] So, we do a monthly staff meeting where we close, we're actually closing today. We do a monthly staff meeting, and we just talk about what's going on, what's working, what's not working, how are we feeling, let's check in. we bring problems to the whole team, all 20 folks, and say, look, we're having an issue with this. What do you guys think we should do?
[00:20:51] So, giving people a voice and making them feel a part of the team, and not a hired employee that shows up to work, [00:21:00] to clock in and clock out. so I think that's one and, and, we do that because we, we actually do know that they're smarter than us.
[00:21:08] Dana: Yeah.
[00:21:09] Maggie Kane: Right.
[00:21:09] They're definitely smarter than me. and so I, I mean, I think it's really just giving people a purpose and a voice and, and the ability to, to have that voice, and, and again, come to the table, which I feel like I keep throwing that in there. And it's also our name,
[00:21:23] Dana: Yeah.
[00:21:24] Maggie Kane: But it's just the truth. so that voice, I think being approachable too. I have tried really hard to be approachable. I want, I want to know when their birthdays are. I want to know when you know what their dog's name is. so I think that too, like making it really feel like there's a culture, there's a team, there's, there's a community, we shut down and do do fellowship events. So, we do, we have a, or we, we had this box. I don't actually know what happened to the box now that I'm saying that out loud, but people could submit in a comment box of like, what do you wanna do as a team? Should we, you know, go to the park and play disc golf?
[00:21:58] Should we, [00:22:00] go to karaoke night or whatever it may be? And so, we, we shut down every so often and do these different, bonding team retreats, we also, I, I believe in like giving your team time off and paid time off. And so, we shut down most holidays and we, give random days off and just say like, go be, you know, next we're closing for election day like go vote and have a mental health day.
[00:22:24] so we do things like that. we, we also try to pay, like Right. We try to pay well a living wage that
[00:22:32] Maggie Kane: what we all should be making. And number one in, so as a nonprofit, nonprofits have strategic plans of what they're working on and what they're working. Number one in our plan is staff, taking care of staff and making sure that they are treated well first.
[00:22:46] Because then they're gonna treat everyone else well. so, so I think, you know, I don't think paying people is the, the end all, be all, but, and I don't think that's what keeps people on teams. But I do think, I think that helps is [00:23:00] just like, you know, treating them how you would, you would wanna be.
[00:23:04] Dana: Well, you can't have an employee be happy all there, no matter how much they love the job.
[00:23:09] If they're working for jobs to make ends meet.
[00:23:11] Maggie Kane: That's right.
[00:23:11] Dana: Like, they're gonna get over exhausted and overwhelmed and then that's gonna come out like, because they're tired. So, it doesn't matter if they're, like, if it's their passion in life, everyone's gonna go somewhere else. And you're seeing that with teachers?
[00:23:22] Maggie Kane: Yep.
[00:23:23] Dana: Right.
[00:23:23] They had a passion for it. They love the job. But they're leaving in droves because, you know, I know we talked about like our last year teaching, we just kept making less and less cause health insurance kept getting more and more and we weren't getting raises.
[00:23:35] Maggie Kane: Right.
[00:23:35] Dana: Like
[00:23:36] Maggie Kane: Ever. And you knew you, you
[00:23:37] weren't gonna get raise.
[00:23:38] Courtney: There was no hope.
[00:23:38] Dana: And what's it gonna be, am I gonna teach this kid chemistry or I'm gonna help pay second half food on the table for my family. Cause I'm barely making ends meet right now.
[00:23:47] I'm gonna go do something else.
[00:23:48] Maggie Kane: It's, it's so true. It's so true. so I do think, yes, thank you. That, I mean, that it is a valid point. So, we try really hard, and the living wage in North Carolina keeps increasing because,
[00:23:59] Courtney: so expensive.
[00:24:00] Maggie Kane: yeah. It's so hard to, to live here. and I think the other thing is, what I didn't say is, we have 20 paid staff. Right? And they execute everything in the restaurant from, from what you're eating.
[00:24:10] That black bean melt that, I brought y'all today to, making the coffee and, and making sure that the product is good because we know that people will come out once for a good cause. They'll come out again if the product is good.
[00:24:21] And if they feel the community is good. That's the second point too. but we have a lot of volunteers that help make everything happen
[00:24:29] Maggie Kane: I mean, true. They're the, they're the ones. This morning, someone came up to me and said, what do you need me to do today? as you know, per volunteering. And I said, oh, don't ask me.
[00:24:37] Go ask you know, our lead volunteer, the, the expert in this. and so we have 150 people that have a weekly shift with us.
[00:24:45] They clock in. I mean, they don't actually clock in, but it's like they're clocking in, for their weekly shift. They come in and they, some of them are volunteering for their meals, some of them are not. but they feel like it is, it's their job.
[00:24:56] and then we have a lot of other folks that sign up online. A lot of other folks that come in and [00:25:00] volunteer for their meal anytime in the day. And everyone's doing the same thing. They're doing dishes, they're running food. they're, you know, they're doing that restaurant work. It's super fun too so plug for volunteering.
[00:25:09] but I, but I will say the reason that, so we have so many people, volunteering all the time and signing up to volunteer and taking these weekly shifts is because they feel a part of something.
[00:25:19] It goes back to my point of feeling a part of something bigger themselves. Community is so important. If, if, the pandemic has taught us anything is that people are lonely, and people are searching for community relationships are the key to everything with relationships, you can thrive.
[00:25:33] and I, and I think, you know, yes, we're fighting food insecurity, but we are fighting community insecurity providing a place for people to feel a part of, a community, to feel a part of, you know, to feel loved, to feel seen. It's just, it's so important in our lives and it's, it's the reason like we live and it's how we thrive and, to, to be seen and to to see.
[00:25:58] Dana: mm-hmm.
[00:25:59] Courtney: So, I [00:26:00] love like, all of that, obviously, like with the staff and the volunteers and like all those things, but there's gotta be some darker side to having volunteers, like I'm sure there's been a case where you have someone who's like volunteered, right? So, you're, they're not, you're not paying them and they're just maybe doing a shitty job.
[00:26:18] Dana: Right? Well,
[00:26:18] Courtney: Or they’re not like embodying what your value is.
[00:26:21] What do you do when you have a bad volunteer.
[00:26:25] Dana: Like a bad apple?
[00:26:25] Courtney: Like, you know, but they're, but they, but they think it's coming from altruistic place. And you're like, you are just so misguided.
[00:26:32] Maggie Kane: you're so misguided and you're trying so hard and this is just not this, you know, this is just maybe not the position for you.
[00:26:38] so we do, we first try, hard to move you to a different position. So, we're gonna say if dishes, like if you, cause that dish room gets really busy back there, right?
[00:26:47] Maggie Kane: So, if you are just like, slowly, like wash your dishes and you're not really understanding it or you're throwing away the spoons and the the bowls.
[00:26:55] cause we have a bowl shortage right now because of that, we are going to move you [00:27:00] to another position and try you there.
[00:27:02] And if you still can't get it, we're gonna move you to another position and try you there. And thank God for our amazing staff and volunteers that are patient, patient, patient people.
[00:27:10] we're gonna move you to another place, and if that's still not working, we're gonna say, hey, your volunteer shift today is to sit and have coffee.
[00:27:16] Maggie Kane: Sit at the community table and have coffee and love on people talk to people. Right. And try that. Right. And if it's still not, then okay, you're just gonna eat today, or you're just, you know, come back another day and try again.
[00:27:27] So we, everything we do is based on relationships.
[00:27:31] so we try really hard to build relationships so that we built that trust so that we can have those conversations. We just hired a community and deescalation specialist. It has been a game changer to the work we are doing.
[00:27:41] Courtney: You said a community de, deescalation, escalations special specialist. That's a job?
[00:27:45] Maggie Kane: and, and so, so people would say a nice security guard. Yes. And we would we would say, we would say, so we had, we had to hire a sec, you know, we had to hire a security guard in during the pandemic because we were all curbside. We had a line out the door, [00:28:00] and we were serving about 450 people a day. and it just got, when you have that many people in one space,it, it, just just, you gotta have crowd control. And so, we, so we had a security guard. So, when we moved back inside, we didn't necessarily wanna hire a security guard. We wanted to hire someone who could build trust and deescalate situations. Because when you've built trust, you can deescalate situations better than, a security guard standing at the door.
[00:28:24] and so, that's not a slash on our security guard because he was awesome, and we miss him. But, we, we did hire Cheyenne, she's amazing. And so her job is to go around and build relationships and have those tough conversations to say, hey, the dish room's not working for you today we're gonna move you out.
[00:28:41] and, and you're gonna try this today, and you're so right, that's her full-time job. And it works because they say, okay, Cheyenne, that sounds great. Right? they they trust her, to know that she means well. And so, I think the question was like, what do you do about the bad apple? It is all built on trust and [00:29:00] relationships, and so it, it really is, you know, if we built those trust with folks, we're able to, to have those tough conversations.
[00:29:07] Courtney: Do you ever have a situation where you're like, I'm fine feeding you?
[00:29:10] Maggie Kane: Yes.
[00:29:11] Courtney: But, we do not want you to work here.
[00:29:13] Maggie Kane: Oh, yes. I didn't even have to have you finish that conversation.
[00:29:15] Courtney: Yes. Yeah.
[00:29:16] Maggie Kane: Yes. yes, and so Cheyenne will have that conversation with someone, and she had one a couple days ago and he said, and he's so lovely, but he's just not a good volunteer.
[00:29:25] Courtney: Yeah.
[00:29:25] Maggie Kane: And, and she said, look, you know, you are great, we love you here. We love you talking to people. We love you sitting. But like, you're just going, you, you get to be the exception, not, not a lot of people just get to come and eat.
[00:29:36] Right.
[00:29:37] But you do.
[00:29:38] Courtney: Yeah.
[00:29:39] Maggie Kane: Right
[00:29:39] Maggie Kane: She made him feel super special.
[00:29:40] Courtney: Yeah.
[00:29:40] Dana: Yeah
[00:29:40] Maggie Kane: and he loves it. He's fine.
[00:29:42] He's like so good.
[00:29:44] but we do fine, I will say, because people wanna be a part of a community. They wanna have a hand up verse handout. They want a purpose, they wanna volunteer.
[00:29:52] And so it is, it's, it's like, oh, why can't I volunteer? They, people wanna volunteer.
[00:29:57] but we do have to have those hard [00:30:00] conversations. And we have to have those hard conversations every day about other things too. Like just bad apples walking into the restaurant who don't believe in our mission. And so, you know, that's as, as a part of a team. Right. We're having a staff meeting today, and that's the question I'm, I'm throwing to them is, is y'all, how can we fix it, like how?
[00:30:18] Dana: Like here’s the people coming in who just like,
[00:30:20] Courtney: taking advantage of the system, right?
[00:30:22] Like clearly have the means, but just aren't paying.
[00:30:24] Maggie Kane: uh yeah. Or just being like rude and causing fights and problems and that's real life. And, and we just see it, it's just right in front of us, right?
[00:30:34] And so, so. So, we're gonna pose that to our team they're smarter than us, like what, our leadership team is gonna pose this to the whole 20 people and say, help us figure this out. How do we, how do we extend dignity to everyone that walks in that door, but also keep our culture, keep our community
[00:30:47] Dana: Yeah. Keep it and keep you safe.
[00:30:49] Maggie Kane: Keep people safe. and so yeah, it, we definitely have the bad apples, we are, we are a thousand percent not perfect. I can have a whole podcast on that.
[00:30:59] Courtney: Well, and I [00:31:00] think that's, I mean, but I think that's a valid point. Cause I think some people like thinking through, like how do you build an organization. Built on the backs of volunteers. What do you do when you have that volunteer that's just literally not gonna work out?
[00:31:11] Maggie Kane: Yeah.
[00:31:11] Courtney: And their heart could be in the right place, but maybe their skills aren't, or maybe their attitude's not, or you know, how do you get over almost like what I would call, and I was trying to talk Dana about this and not describe anyone.
[00:31:21] Courtney: almost like volunteer entitlement.
[00:31:23] Do you know what I'm saying
[00:31:23] Maggie Kane: It’s true
[00:31:23] true though.
[00:31:24] It is. It's a, it is a thing.
[00:31:25] And we, so, so we have, it's not, it, it's across the board. It's folks that, that are some of our wealthiest donors that have volunteer entitlement, just people who can't pay a dollar.
[00:31:36] So, it is across the board and we do the same thing to everyone. We have, we sit down, we have that conversation and we be real, real, like we are transparent. And we put it all on the table and say, we love you, but this like, it’s just not time to volunteer right now.
[00:31:50] Maggie Kane: We still want you to be a part of this community.
[00:31:51] So, I think quickly to say it's like being honest, showing love, and, and still making them feel like they're a part of it.
[00:31:58] Dana: Yeah.
[00:31:59] Have [00:32:00] you been able to kind of figure that out quicker now that you've had, obviously you've had years of this, so like what are some red flags that you would probably say people that you feel like you need to intervene in?
[00:32:11] Like, I'm sure you're doing it more quickly now than you probably were before
[00:32:16] Maggie Kane: For sure. I would say people that aren't so people that are taking advantage. right? And those are just folks that don't believe in your mission. They don't get the mission and maybe they don't believe in it yet, okay, but they don't get it.
[00:32:28] And, and that is going, you are gonna lose your mission, you're gonna lose your community, you're gonna lose your organization if you don't take care of it.
[00:32:33] And so it's, that is number one. Like the people that don't, that. that don't get your mission, that aren't a part of your mission. so for us, like if you're not a part of our community by volunteering or respecting the volunteerism or respecting other volunteers, then like, you gotta go. Because you're gonna, that means our community is not gonna survive if you're, if you're taking advantage of it.
[00:32:54] Right.
[00:32:55] so I would say that, so folks that are taking advantage, other [00:33:00] red flags, I think, I think. If it goes back, it goes a little bit to, to that point, not respecting, but not respecting other people in there, not respecting other volunteers. Like that is what we're doing you're like, you, you got to be kind and open to, to being a part of the community, which means respecting everyone that you're doing this volunteering with.
[00:33:21] so I think, I think those two are probably the, the big ones that we look for. not respecting, not not getting the mission, not respecting the mission, but also not respecting the people, whether it's a volunteer or it's a staff member.
[00:33:33] Dana: Yeah.
[00:33:33] Which is so true. And I think that we we're just talking about this cause we're actually giving a, a talk on building your dream team. And this is like a whole part of it. And we have what we call those people are like cancer. And because they really tend to seep into the heart of your organization. And it's just those things volunteer or not volunteer, like employees. The ones that feel like they can do everybody else's job.
[00:33:57] Maggie Kane: Yeah.
[00:33:57] Dana: Or they don't respect their teammate or that they're [00:34:00] here, or they're the most important person, really can, it can, it can eat away and break up your entire company, and it's like one person. And it's amazing how much power they have.
[00:33:58] Maggie Kane: It’s amazing.
[00:34:10] Dana: It's amazing.
[00:34:10] But they do, because
[00:34:11] Maggie Kane: It's toxic energy.
[00:34:12] Dana: It is. It is toxic energy.
[00:34:13] Maggie Kane: And as soon as you get that toxic energy out,
[00:34:16] Dana: yes
[00:34:17] Maggie Kane: It feels good again.
[00:34:17] We are having today in our staff meeting, I keep going back to this, but we're talking about gossip casue I’m gonna, I'm gonna throw that out there and say, I've heard gossip around this cafe. We are not, we are non-gossip culture.
[00:34:27] Bring it outta these walls because once that gossip and toxic energy is in there, then, then you can't, you can't get it gone until you do it. And I think leaders need to know that it is their job to get that toxic energy out, or the whole, the whole organization could crumble.
[00:34:41] Dana: Yeah.
[00:34:42] Courtney: Yeah.
[00:34:42] And I do think, I mean that's such a good point and also like getting to that talk that's like the point is you think it's a them problem. Yeah, like as a leader, like you're not recognizing that it's you not leading your team in the direction they should be led and not necessarily, not necessarily the bad apple, cause you're, you know, basically prioritizing that bad apple over the [00:35:00] 19 for you, other good apples that you have on your team. You know what I mean,
[00:35:03] Courtney: Absolutely,
[00:35:03] Maggie Kane: Absolutely.
[00:35:04] And you will feel 20 times better once, once you have dealt with
[00:35:07] Dana: That situation,
[00:35:08] Maggie Kane: whether it's, you know, getting, that sounded really harsh to say, get that person gone.
[00:35:12] But whether it's that and it's come to that, or whether it's having those really hard conversations. And addressing it head on. I, I believe, and I think this is another reason why our, you know, our team works well, is cause we believe in conflict and talking about conflict, everyone's gonna have conflict
[00:35:27] Courtney: Mm-hmm
[00:35:27] Maggie Kane: When you're close to your team and you're working constantly with them every day, all day, you, you're gonna have conflict. And so, you know, we've started staff meetings where we say, okay, let's get all the conflict out.
[00:35:39] Maggie Kane: Let's talk it out. Talk it out.
[00:35:40] and when you trust your team enough, you can, and you've built that trust with your team conflict is, is is a good thing because you, you want to talk through those things. Or that toxic resentment energy is in that space.
[00:35:54] Dana: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:55] Yeah.
[00:35:55] And I also kind of, you mentioned this before, talking about trying people in different positions. [00:36:00] I think that a lot of times, what you're seeing is a lot of insecurity and someone who is doing a job that they're just not good at, and they know it and they know they're failing. Like they tend to become that toxic energy they tend because protecting themselves. And the minute you put them in a position where they're thriving, and they feel seen in that position, they feel appreciated, they feel great, they can completely change.
[00:36:21] So, for us, a lot of times when we have what you call a bad apple, it's like are they really a bad apple? Are they just a little sickly?
[00:36:28] We need to put them in like some triage and they can get better, or are they genuinely, like they're done. You know? And that's a hard thing to parse out, and I love that you kind of go through all these steps to determine, if it is, because I think sometimes we give up on people too easily, too quickly.
[00:36:45] Maggie Kane: Right.
[00:36:46] Maggie Kane: That's like the anthesis of what we do at A Place at the Table
[00:36:48] And we don't wanna give up on you, and we're not gonna give up on you unless it's those two things of like, you really don't believe in what we're doing.
[00:36:55] And you gave up on you gave up on us first.
[00:36:57] Dana: Right.
[00:36:57] Yes.
[00:36:58] Maggie Kane: Right. And so, we're gonna work with [00:37:00] you until you don't wanna work with us.
[00:37:02] Right?
[00:37:03] because people. people, again, people wanna be a part
[00:37:07] Maggie Kane: of something and they care about community and they care about relationships and they, they, people are
[00:37:12] Dana: looking
[00:37:13] Maggie Kane: for
[00:37:13] Dana: mm-hmm.
[00:37:13] Maggie Kane: for community. And so, we're not gonna give up on you until you give up on us. But, you do as, as a leader, you, you gotta be that person that is, that is
[00:37:23] Dana: Zero tolerance.
[00:37:24] Yeah.
[00:37:24] Maggie Kane: Zero tolerance and seeing, seeing that to your point of moving people and, and seeing where people's skills are.
[00:37:31] Dana: Right?
[00:37:32] Yeah. It's so true.
[00:37:35] Courtney: Well, what has been the most rewarding part of this journey for.
[00:37:40] Dana: you?
[00:37:42] Maggie Kane: Every single
[00:37:48] Maggie Kane: are great.
[00:37:49] I, mean really every day at the table is amazing. It's really hard. cause relationships are hard. They're messy everyone is coming in with, [00:38:00] I mean, humans are messy, right? So, building relationships is just hard.
[00:38:03] And so we do, we do see a, a lot of, of, you know, we have a lot of struggles at, at A Place at the Table
[00:38:09] Maggie Kane: like everyone does. but at the end of the day, it is so beautiful what is happening in that space.
[00:38:16] The relationships and the people that I get to meet. the hugs I get as I was walking out, coming over here, I got 10 different hugs by people saying it's like I was never gonna come back. and so I, I feel, I feel so fortunate to be a part of the team, that is there and that they accept me on their team, because that every day I get to go into the, the job where I feel loved and cared for, just like I want other people to feel.
[00:38:42] Dana: Yeah.
[00:38:43] Yeah. I love that.
[00:38:43] Courtney: That’s great.
[00:38:43] Dana: That's great.
[00:38:44] Yeah.
[00:38:45] Maggie Kane: And the food.
[00:38:45] Dana: You could feel that
[00:38:45] Maggie Kane:
[00:38:45] that the
[00:38:46] Dana: You could just feel like the passion that you have for people. And I really love that. And just the humility is so rare in people, like, I just, I think it's, I think it's really, really great.
[00:38:58] Maggie Kane: Awe you're kind of say, but I [00:39:00] actually, I'm in truly like they are the reason that I
[00:39:04] Maggie Kane: I like live. I, people people are my passion, like you said, but I, I truly believe I was on, I was put on this earth to love people.
[00:39:12] and I get all that love back.
[00:39:15] Courtney: Yeah.
[00:39:15] Dana: Yeah.
[00:39:15] It's awesome.
[00:39:16] Courtney: I love that.
[00:39:17] Dana: Well, we would love to for you to tell our listeners how they can support you and table
[00:39:21] Maggie Kane: Yes.
[00:39:21] Dana: And, maybe where it's at. Yes. So people know to stop by.
[00:39:25] Maggie Kane: We're at 300 West Harget Street right downtown, across from Vita Vite next to Legends around this corner from Morgan Street food Hall, if you're ever downtown. all three options, but we, are open eight to two Tuesday through Sunday. we are. Breakfast and lunch food's really great, come see us. You can also see us on our website, tableraleigh.org.
[00:39:44] tableraleigh.org. You can see our awesome team on there. and then on social media @tableraleigh
[00:39:48] Courtney: Okay.
[00:39:49] Dana: Yeah. And there's lots of opportunities to get involved either financially.
[00:39:53] Volunteer.
[00:39:54] Maggie Kane: If you're looking for a community, we are your space. You are never gonna walk in that space and not, [00:40:00] be talks to probably a hundred times by someone.
[00:40:03] Courtney: Love that.
[00:40:04] Dana: Yeah. Well thank you so much for your time today we
[00:40:06] Courtney: Appreciate it.
[00:40:07] Maggie Kane: Y'all are a joy thanks for having me.
[00:40:09] Dana: Yeah, it was great.