Dana: and I think it's the one thing I hope that my children get from me is the realization that it is up to you to change your life. like life is, you can't just sit there and be a bystander to your life and let it happen. Like, if you want something to change, like you can change it
Courtney: Well that was fun. That was a great conversation.
Dana: I know. I always liked Ryan. I got to meet him a little bit more at family camp. We at family camp during 2020. he was always just so down to earth. So much information.
Courtney: So good. I loved his perspective. I, and I think it's so relevant, so, I mean, it's definitely like some of the things that I think we've experienced as, you know, getting back into teaching and whatnot.
like in the, like with early twenties and, you know, sophomores and juniors and seniors in college and whatnot. It's definitely very different. Like, that's how I feel. I feel like whenever we have these conversations or as the years go by and you're like talking about these things, it makes you feel old because you have to, you relate so differently and like their values are so different, technology's so different, in talking about it I feel like my grandmother.
Dana: What's so interesting is, well, I will dig into like our takeaways, but I think off the bat, like what he said, and we talk about this when, whenever we kind of do a talk on generational differences that they're entering the workforce in a very different environment than what we entered in.
But I remember in the middle of 2020, I looked at Sam and I was like, man like our generations had it. You know exactly what I said freshman year was Columbine. So at that all high school, I think I could count, I don't think I have enough fingers to count how many times they had bomb threats and mm-hmm. whatnot. They had to go through or whatever, and which is very formative to how I viewed school. We all had to have ID cards at that point. Mm-hmm. and there was lots of more security.
And then 9/11 happened, which is very formative in how I viewed the world. It completely changed everything that I thought about the world. About politics specifically. And then we go through it. And so these are like very formative years of us changing who we are, going to college, being young adults. And then like, now we're in these formative years of being parents and we're having to navigate a pandemic with children.
Courtney: Like Yeah, but you started the workforce in a recession, right?
Dana: Yeah. So you had the big great recession, whatever. So it's just, and so I, when I think about it, I'm just, and, and it's very selfish looking way, I'm like the boomers had it easy. Gen Z has it easy. Mm-hmm. like, this is hard, you know? But I think it's really interesting to think about that every generation has its own unique challenges. And own unique things that dictate how they behave.
Courtney: Hey, you think about like the generation before us. I mean, we never went through a draft. We were worried about it, but we never went through a draft. We never had to go through it. 100%. That's very formative. You know? And then we never went through a World War, generation before that. Right? Never went through a depression, right? Not yet.
Dana: That's very bleak.
Courtney: Doesn't it feel that way? Anyone else? So I thought that was great. I love the topic for sure.
Dana: So overall, what was your favorite overall takeaway?
Courtney: Well, one of my favorite lines that he said was that you can't treat Gen Z as a monolith. And I thought that is so true. when he was talking about it comes really down to like, what makes an individual person tick. Mm-hmm. and what they value and how they won't really stick around for something that they don't value and you can't. Espouse the same value to the whole generation.
Dana: Do you, do you feel like you could do that for like millennials or, or Gen Xers that you could, that they're more of a monolithic group?
Courtney: I feel like millennials, it was like, suck it up buttercup. like you can have that value great. And you can work on that in your spare time, but it's not what your life's gonna be about. you have to provide, you have to do the nine to five, you have to do these steps mm-hmm. to get to this thing, to buy this thing, and to have this life.
Dana: So in some way we all behave the same?
Courtney: I do think that there was like one way that people were managed, there was one way that people complied and either you complied or you didn't comply. you were successful. You weren't successful. And now there's like these varying degrees of what is successful, right.
Like equally as successful, not varying degrees, but equally as successful with these very different paths. And it wasn't the like, oh, you're gonna do good in school and then you're gonna go to college, and then you're gonna get a job. Mm-hmm. and you're gonna work that job for 30 years and then you're gonna retire and then you're gonna go on cruises.
But that's what I'm saying is like, that's what it was. That's what we were taught. And that's how people managed and what people did. And now it's like just not that way. You do the cruise to Alaska before you do your job.
Dana: That's right. You take two weeks off of work for that cruise.
Courtney: That's right. Or you just don't
Dana: work. Or you just don't work. I think that's a piece of advice people give all the time. Like you can't put people in one category. You can't lump them together. And I think that while people said it, we always did it, but this is especially true of this generation that you can't lump 'em together.
Well, I loved, my favorite, favorite quote he said is, um is kind of what they believe that the only way to do good is from a place of strength. and I feel like it was very much a moment of, I guess you could say, light bulb moment of where I've always characterized them as selfish and needing to, they only looked out for themselves and thinking like, oh, we haven't, they're not like the best team player or they're always thinking about what they want or what they need.
And really where it comes down to is they're doing it because they need to be strong so that they can change the world around them. Which I think is so powerful, I think.
Courtney: I think it is. And then I think it's like an amazing attribute, but I also sometimes think it lands badly. Sure, like when someone values something or believes in something so greatly, that's contrary to maybe what's best for society or like maybe what's best for the other people around them. I think it can definitely kind of go in the other way.
Dana: Well, so like for me, where I struggled a lot and is that well, whenever we've hired people, we've always had this like kind of flexible schedule or whatever. Mm-hmm. and you know, our very first hires, I was like, okay, we can be flexible, but I need you in the office like at least these three days a week and you can work from home these other two days and blah blah, whatever. And now it's very much like, like our C&D girls, I only see them one day a week. Mm-hmm. and they're off doing, working from wherever they wanna work every other day of the week.
And it still is a hard thing for me to feel like, well why? Why aren't they coming in the office? And for them it's like, well, because I need to recharge. Like I've had all these things, or because I wanna go here or there, or, because what I value is being able to have a slower morning and a slower day mm-hmm. and not be go, go, go, go. So that I can do this job really well.
And I think for so long I questioned, is it laziness? is it because it's what you want? Or are you really genuinely thinking about your job? And I, and I feel like for our employees, I do think that they think about their job. They say, I can only do my job if I am in this state of mind with this amount of energy and to do that, this is what I need, so I'm gonna do that so I can perform the best that I can perform. Which is a very different way of thinking.
Courtney: Which I mean, I do agree. Well, one, I think it's required for the job that they do, like as an event planner and your client facing and you're dealing with emotional people on emotional days, sure you have to be in a good frame of mind and in a good space. And burnout is a real thing there.
But also I've seen too, where they will show up to the office on a day that they're not supposed to be there because something has to be done. like it's something that requires them to be in the office. And they need to work through it. They'll sit there and they'll work through it as well.
Dana: But for me, I'm in the office five days a week.
Courtney: Yeah, well ish, yeah.
Dana: Yeah. No, I mean, I am mostly in the office five days a week, like Monday through Friday. At some point my car is in that parking lot. Five days a week. And could I work from home those days? Probably, yeah. Maybe, yeah. Like most days I could probably just not go in, but there is something about it that makes me feel like I need to be there. I need to show up. I want my employees to see me working or I don't know, like I don't look at that time at home as this restorative building time.
I'm like, shit, I'm home. I'm gonna like, wanna do the laundry mm-hmm. do the dishes. I'm gonna look around and be like, I'm gonna take a nap. like, I just don't have that same like ability to kind of compartmentalize my life, you know?
Courtney: I agree. I mean, I feel like I'm more productive in the office. I'm less productive at home.
Dana: Right. But what I'm saying is I think it's really amazing that they can look at it and say, this is what I need. This is how I'm going to rebuild, and in turn, I'm gonna be so much more efficient and productive. Whereas I don't know that answer. I still don't know that answer. Like, what do I need to do personally to build that strength in order to take a nap, be productive and efficient. I don't think, for me, I don't think that's actually a truth, but I mean, I just, I love that they're so tapped into that. You know?
Courtney: Yeah. No, I think, I think it makes them like happy, happier, and healthy employees. Which I totally love. So business. So what was your favorite, business takeaway that he shared? so I think you gave a lot, like from you, so much like as an employer perspective.
Dana: Yeah. And I feel like there's so many things that like totally feel like I need to write like a cheat sheet or something, but yeah. I loved when he kind of talked about their need for equity and that really all they're looking for is true accountability.
And I, I do feel that like, and I, and I, what I love is because I actually really, really, really relate to that. Like very, very much so. Like I, that is a very, is a core, core value of mine is justice equity in holding people accountable for their actions. And I really thought it was interesting that for them it's when you're saying that they're not looking at you and thinking you're weak. If you say, oh, I made this mistake, I was wrong.
They're looking at it and saying, okay, great. Yeah, you're a human. Just like I'm a human. How are you gonna fix it? And so for you to say, okay, I was wrong. I, this was not the right thing, and this is the steps I'm gonna take, like, great, I'm gonna hold you to that. you know, and they're gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. They're gonna give you the grace, they're gonna give you the compassion, the empathy, all walking through that because they see you as a person. and all they're looking for is for you to be a good person and to follow through on your word and to have accountability for what you've done, you know, which I think leads to fairness.
Courtney: Yeah. I, I totally agree. I think they look for that because there's so many examples where people aren't held accountable.
Dana: Oh, yeah. We live in a world of unaccountability.
Courtney: Yeah. Or like blame.
Dana: Yeah. But I mean, that's all they grew up in. That's it. I mean, it's, it's exactly like I've shared this before is that was the hardest thing I had to come to in this industry is that you could be the worst person in the world and be super success.
Courtney: That's life. I don't, don't think it's true to this industry.
Dana: I know, but it bothers me because as a kid I was told that that was not, that they're gonna get it to 'em, that they're gonna fail, they're gonna, they can't sleep at night. I was like, I think they sleep fine on their 500 account sheets. Like, no problem.
Courtney: That's right.
Dana: They don't care. They don't have a moral like conundrum. They're just, it's just who they are, you know? Yeah. And you're just, and I don't know if it comes from this very competitive, selfish view of life that you have, that they have. Someone has to be miserable for you to be happier. Do you know what I mean?
Courtney: I don't think that's necessarily true.
Dana: No, I mean, like, so for, for using that example of like, okay, you have this person who just isn't a great business person. They're not, maybe they're not honest, whatever, but they're so much more successful for you, but for you to justify it in your mind, you're like, oh, but they're probably miserable. they don't have anyone that loves them or they're lonely, whatever.
You have to justify that to make your, but I'm happy and I have a great spouse and even though I'm not as successful, I have all these things. You know what I'm saying? like you have to, there has to be an a grand equalizer.
Courtney: Oh yeah. Sometimes it's just not, because that's life.
Dana: Because that's life. Mm-hmm. and so I love that they are actively trying to change that. And say, Hmm, I don't buy that. I don't wanna be around you. I wanna work for you. if you're gonna be that way.
Courtney: Right. I don't wanna add to your, I don't wanna add to it. For sure. I like his point about the communicating piece. Mm-hmm. where he said that they have so many apps mm-hmm. and when you, we think about the phone or they think about texting, it's just literally another app on their life that is the phone.
And I think that's so true. And I, actually was having a conversation with Dean Ogan recently about that and how he has such a hard time getting people to respond on, his part-time workers. And sometimes it's, he's, he said himself, it's like 4, 5, 6 times. Mm-hmm. Like I'm, they're messaging me back on Instagram, but they won't send back a text, you know?
And I thought it was really true, and I've experienced that. Yeah, for sure. I've experienced that with a client where I could not get them to respond to an email. I could not get them respond to a text. I could only get them to respond on an Instagram dm. I was like, I would really prefer not to plan your wedding over Instagram direct messages.
That's just not how I like to work, but it's the only way that I could get her to respond, and I think that's just, that's so true. I think understanding that as a business owner and then coming up with something that, I mean, whether that's an app or like some way that it's just this, this is when I'm trying to communicate with you, I'm going to use this tool specifically, so I need you to have the notifications on for this specifically or whatnot, I think is so key.
Dana: Do you think that this generation likes things like the Slack and Microsoft teams more because of that? Because it's like kind of, again, they can compartmentalize, this is where all my business communication is, or do you think they care?
Courtney: I don't know. I, I don't know. I can't tell because our, our girls aren't that way. like, we can definitely text and we have group text messages and threads and whatnot, so
Dana: We don't have a lot of Gen Zers. We, we only employ like two. Yeah, maybe two. Maybe two. Most of our employees are millennials.
Courtney: Yeah. But I don't notice them emailing or DMing us and talking to us. It’s always on a text, you know?
Dana: Yeah, but maybe, maybe that's the case. I mean, I'm sure there's a reason that those apps are successful.
Courtney: Sure. I'm sure they're being utilized.
Dana: Well, I say that because one of the things I loved about Slack is I reply to my own time. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't like, That notification about my text messages, or if I read it, then it would go away and I would forget that I had it. Whereas Slack, it's like, okay, I'm ready to answer emails or questions, so I'm gonna open up this app. And answer it through that.
Courtney: I mean, I never think so I, I don't like to do anything business related, like document related or deliverable? Related over text? Yeah. Like I want it via email. Because when I open my email, like I'm ready to work. If I see like a text on the, this happens often, I see a work text on the weekend and I've read it, but I haven't like done anything with it. It's filed away as done in my mind. like it's not registered. Whereas I use my inbox as a way to like say, oh, that's, I haven't filed that away. That's something I still need to do. But I definitely think it is like a different mindset.
Dana: So how do you, how do you bridge that?
Courtney: Oh, well, I think for him he was saying that it's very specific to the person. Like there is, there's more management prowess that has to happen now where you're communicating in the way that that person can hear it in the mode that person can utilize it and you know that, you know, Sally likes to Instagram, so you DM and you know, Chris likes to text and mm-hmm. Susie likes an email
Dana: You need a cheat sheet.
Courtney: I know. I imagine you'd have to, when you have a hundred people. Have to have a cheat sheet. But yeah, I think that's really an interesting point. And I think one that probably is going to become more of an issue as more gen Zers come into the workforce. And you have to bridge.
Dana: But I think it goes back to kind of bridging this concept together that he talked about towards the end is that, you're employing people. And you know, kind of even similar to what you said, but overall, like they're not, they're not all the same. And so taking the time to understand who they are, and how they like to be communicated, like where their values are, all that stuff. Cause I'm sure it's all related. right?
So if you have someone that really values like connection and getting to know you, they're gonna prefer a phone call, right? Over a text or an Instagram dm and how that builds, you know, meaningful relationships. And I think that that's something that like we can really attest to is like, you know, for the most part, if our employee left on good terms, you know, they became forever employees.
Courtney: For sure. I think it is interesting, like, for me, like personally, like I think about, I like the efficiency of texting, you know? Mm-hmm. that I can do something while I'm texting. But then if you're telling me some bad information or if you're giving me feedback, I wanna, I wanna hear your voice cuz I wanna hear your tone. I can't determine how angry you are. Mm-hmm. or like what the tone is on a text. And for my mind, I will always interpret it as negative.
like, it'll never be like, oh, she meant that positively when you meant it negatively. It's always negative whether you meant it. Oh yeah. So I think, but that's just not the case. Mm-hmm. though, with a lot of the people that we employ, you know? Right. Like they would rather have the time to digest it before they're actually responding to you.
Dana: Yeah. I mean, but we've, we've had this like recently with a, on a group text with the Bradford people and Yes, we were talking about this thing and it was, it was really uncomfortable. It was really uncomfortable. Cause it felt really aggressive. It did. And I was like, why is this person so aggressive? I was like, let's get on a FaceTime call right now.
We're Face Timing and then on the FaceTime call, everyone was fine. I'm like, what, what? What was the tone in that text? Why are, why you so aggressive on the text message about this? And I think it's just, I think, I think for like, I was sensitive about it because of we, I'd already counseled one person through it and I'd already created a path forward.
So I read it in a way through my own feelings about it, where I don't know if it necessarily would have been that way, if I was more indifferent. And I'm like, she's not being aggressive. That's just, she's just asking valid questions. And then it begs
Courtney: the question is this, is this how they've always communicated with each other?
Right. So they're not taking it personally. Whereas we are like the bless your heart generation. You know, like, I'm going to tell you this thing, but bless your heart. Do you know what I mean? Right. because I felt like there was not enough Blu Your hearts
Dana: in there. No, there was not. Like at all.
There was not a like, I know you're working hard at this, I knows fault, but for like it was very much so-and-so's done a lot of
Courtney: work on blah, blah, blah, but I really think she was considering blah, blah, blah. Just one shot after the other,
Dana: right? Yes. It's very true. Thought that was good though.
Yeah. He had so much good business. I think we could talk this entire thing about business device. Yeah, sure. There's so many, so many great things. All right. What about personal? What do you think your best, you thought, like, personally, piece of advice?
Courtney: I think one of the things that we can take away.
Yeah. So like, I personally think personally, like what we can take away from this generation is their focus on self-care. Mm-hmm. and how their best work is coming from a place of wellness and strength. Yes. Kind of like that put your mask, your oxygen mask on first added. Yes. That's the same thing when you said that.
Yeah. That we did not learn. No, because it, it almost.. And sometimes I wonder if it's just like the way that we were raised and like in the environment, but it's, I felt like growing up that my usefulness, my purpose, or my usefulness was only as it was useful to someone else. Sure. Like my worth was only as it was useful to somebody else.
Mm-hmm. and kind of getting out of the mindset like as an adult that, you know, people are. have inherent worth and it doesn't have to be related. Mm-hmm. to how someone else can benefit. Mm-hmm. from you or your works, or your deeds or your words or whatever. That also I am worthy too. you know, because I, again, I don't know if it's just like the particular situation of where, how we grew up or if that is how our generation sees it as a whole.
Dana: I think it's how people see it as a whole. What I think is interesting is when you kind of digest what we were told as kids in terms of our future, right? I didn't feel like there was a lot of limitations. I was like, okay, you can be or do whatever you want to be, but with parameters. And it's, and it wasn't parameters like, oh, because you're not good enough, smart enough, because you're a girl, whatever.
Not that, but it was like the parameters were you had to contribute to your world around you. like whether you wanna be a teacher, you wanna be a doctor, you wanna be an engineer, you wanna be the president, you wanna be a senator. Like, all of these things were things that there was never an option to be like, I wanna be somebody who influences other people. Like, I wanna be someone who feels really successful and content and happy. And maybe that means I'm hodgepodge my career, but I feel valuable or I feel like just, in the moment of my life.
That was not an option. It was very much what can you do to better the world. And I'm not saying that's a negative way to look at it, but that it was very much that. Like what you're worth is tied to your production. Whereas this generation and how we talk to our kids now, it's like, what do you wanna do?
Like I just want you to be happy, like. I want you to be happy and I want you to be successful enough to not live in my house.
Courtney: To get outta my basement.
Dana: Right? That's, that's the expectation and that's the bar. And because I think that for so long, and I'm super curious about this, how many millennials are on an antidepressant go to therapy? I am one of them. But like, because we were never told that our happiness mattered and that you're, that again, you're just tied to what you're producing. And when you're not producing what you feel like you should be doing, when you're not creating this outcome that you feel like you should, you should be.
It creates a deep well of shame and depression. So how many of us walk through this world just literally trying to survive yeah. Right? And how much of our kids in this next generation are gonna just thrive? I don't know the answer.
Courtney: Yeah are they gonna be happy street people? I mean, like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like I, I hear what you're saying and like, I admire so much of that, but then like mentally, I can't get behind that whole thing.
Dana: But it's not, I'm not saying that they need to go and like do nothing with their life, but it's, it's the feeling of again, like it's not like our parents were like, okay, you can do whatever you want. You should open up a business. You should follow your passion. Do it.
Courtney: No, they never said that.
Dana: You know what I mean? But it was very much, okay, what is your passion and the fact that you can go to college and get a degree for, and someone's gonna hire you for, yeah. Whereas I feel like this group of people is gonna say like, I feel so passionate about this cause and this thing.
and they're gonna create a nonprofit, they're gonna create a product, they're gonna do this stuff, and they're gonna just jump all over the world to like fulfill this feeling of euphoria that they have when they are doing this thing. Because for me, I know for my kids, it's like, I don't care if you go to college, you don't care if you don't, don't go to college if you don't need to.
If you wanna do something that requires a degree, go get a degree. But if you don't need something that require a degree, don't waste your money. Don't go into debt for it. Don't put us in debt for it, like you know,
Courtney: and I, I do think the world's bouncing back that way.
Dana: It is, but it's, it's like, what do you value. What do you want to do? And the other thing is, is you don't have to do that for 40 years. You could do it for 10 years. Be like, you know, I don't wanna do that anymore. I wanna do this. Great. go do it. You know, like I just don't have that same expectation. That I feel like we had.
Yeah. I mean, I to, I totally agree. Maybe that's wrong. Maybe my kids will live with me for forever because that very reason be in your basement.
Courtney: I don't have a basement. It's kinda my garage, that’s an issue. Yeah. No, I, I don't know. I, I agree with a lot of that, and especially when I can get behind somebody else's values.
Like I love that passion, but then also I have a hard time sometimes with the superficialness of it, you know? I've always kind of thought that I am everybody and nobody. Mm-hmm. like all at once. I understand that I am like one of many people and probably lots of people think the same way that I do, but then maybe no one thinks the same way that I do.

like I, in an existential way kind of see myself in the world that way and that's the way that I think people are, right. You know, like you're one of many and you're also an individual. And I think that sometimes this generation when, you know, as we're teaching them and as we're raising them, it's too much in the individual.
Like they need to understand the part that they play in the hole. Mm-hmm. and I think it's our job to guide them towards that. Mm-hmm. to like celebrate their individuality. Mm-hmm. because it is what makes them special and unique in people, but also understand that that individuality and you talk about, like talking about self-care coming from that strength of like wellness. strength and wellness and whatnot is what can help the greater good, you know?
Dana: No, I totally agree. And but you, you ever think about, and I, maybe our parents felt this way about us, I don't know. But when I look at that generation, I'm like, they have so much more power than I have because in terms of, you look at it, just look at like just the political landscape of our world.
like there's not gonna be any more millennials are boomers voting, right? Mm-hmm. like, cuz they're either, they're not being born, they're dying, right? and they're just gonna have this next generation. There's gonna be more and more every year. There's more
Courtney: how every generation is,
Dana: it is, but I don't, I don't think I ever like thought through that. like every year there's more people turning 18 registering to vote. And they have the power of the world that they want ultimately. You know, like they can create that and it's, it's an amazing thing. And I never felt that way. Like, I never felt, someone was like, wow, you, your generation holds so much power.
Like you're the next generation that's gonna change the world. And that's just not how, maybe they thought it, but I wasn't told that. And I, yeah. I feel like they're being told you are gonna change the world.
Courtney: they're certainly gonna shift it, one way or another.

Dana: So my personal takeaway that I loved is when he said that they really believe that they are in control of their fate, even if it's misguided.
And I feel like I love that because again, I, I relate to that very much. But I was talking to Sam this weekend about it actually, and I was talking about our, the kids and just like we were just having a couple of like, just issues with them just not taking control of the situation that they're in.
And I said, you know, sometimes I look at them and like they just are there and life is happening around them. And I was like, and I think it's the one thing I hope that my children get from me is the realization that it is up to you to change your life. like life is, you can't just sit there and be a bystander to your life and let it happen.
Right. Like, if you want something to change, like you can change it like, Actually trying and doing something and trying something different or whatever. I was like, I really hope that they like, I that they get that from me. Cuz I feel like that's how I am. Like, I don't like that. I wanna do it, I'm gonna change it.
Yeah. Like, I'm going to find an alternate path and alternate solution because I don't accept what's happening right now. I really love that, that they have, whether it's misguided or not, sense of I'm in control of my life.
Courtney: But don't you think they're setting up for a world of hurt?
Dana: No, I don't. I don't think that, I think that because
Courtney: I think control is an illusion.
Dana: Control is an illusion. But I think, I believe so. Whenever you look at something and it's like, okay, like I, I don't like what's happening right now. In my life. So I am gonna say, is there another option around it?
Can I do something to get where I feel like I should be? And like, ultimately, I don't ever get to where I feel like I should be, but I get to a path or a place that is better. Mm-hmm. than where I was and maybe better where I could have been. And so I feel like when you have this illusion of you can control your world mm-hmm. to an extent. To an extent, right. You can control your world, that there is a lot less excuses that you have. And there's a lot more opportunity. that you did it.
Courtney: So you see it as opportunity.
Dana: Yes. And I, and I love that. Like and I think it's lacking in our generation. It's lacking in the boomer generation.
Courtney: I definitely see the biggest contrast between when I think about that between the boomer generation and this generation. When you think that, Like if you were to speak to like some of our relatives, the world is happening to them. Yeah, totally. If you were to speak to some of our students, the world is happening for them.
I think it's two very different ways of seeing things. and I, and I think, I think that that comes from, and I said it in the podcast, is the fact that this generation is constantly faced with their own mortality. It wasn't something that I thought about. I, I remember thinking and being nervous cuz, I mean, I've always kind of been anxious, nervous in la I remember being anxious when Desert Storm happened and like watching the news every night with my dad and like kind of talking through what was happening.
And I remember being worried about my world at that point. I remember definitely feeling like the world shifted with 9/11. Mm-hmm. for sure. Like that bubble that we did live in, even with Desert Storm that seemed so far away. this felt very close to home, you know? But that's all they've ever known.
Dana: Yeah. But, but 9/11, I didn't question my mortality. I was like, I remember thinking like, that's such a tragedy that happened. But my first thought is like, that will never happen in the United States ever again. It will never happen again.
Courtney: What? Mine was like, it's gonna happen every Tuesday. What are you talking about?
Dana: No, because I, I just did, I just knew, like, in my mind, like that was never, they would never let it happen again. Like there were too many mistakes and things that happened. No, that's how I, that's how I approached it.
Courtney: I was like, this government cannot keep us safe. They have failed. Oh my God. I'm never hopping on a plane. I'm never doing, I sit in this hunker down.
Dana: I literally went on a plane in November. I was like, it'll never ha November 20th, 2001. It'll never happen again.
Courtney: I was like, I thought they had all this internal information. What did they not have? The inf does no one have the information. That's what I felt like.
Dana: It's interesting, perspectives.
Courtney: Yeah. Oh my God. No, I thought that I was no for thought for sure. That I, this is going to happen again on any given state and any given day, and that this illusion of control that the government had was just that it was an illusion.
And really they don't know what's happening because if they could let that happen, anything could happen. because that was the craziest thing ever to me. So I think, I think it's that, I think that they are like live in a world of uncertainty and I think when you live in a world of uncertainty, what do you have?
You have right now. And so you're going to make choices that are gonna make you right now better. So I do think they don't have a real like future plan. which I think, you know, helps them in the, today. I, I'm interested how they're gonna be when they're like, you know, seventies.
Which is why I feel for me personally, I'm like, we need to create some generational wealth because our next generation might actually need that.
Dana: Well, yeah, and I think for us as, as employers, it's important to, when you're talking to our employees, to give them options to say like, I know you don't think you're not thinking of the future. but you really, we have these 401K options Yeah. That you need to take advantage of. You should do that. You should do this. like, let's just, we're gonna give you some advice here that. This is the best route for you. But yeah, I do think that, I mean, I, and I think that they've bled over to us as parents.
because I approach my children as they're never gonna ask me to snuggle them again, like, you know, like every day, right? Yeah. When they ask me to snuggle and I'm like, I really don't want to, I'm like, but you know what? They may not ask me tomorrow. This might be the last time. Oh. You know what I mean?
Courtney: Oh, you're saying when they ask you, you say, oh, they're never gonna do this again. Do you need some children? Mine need snuggling every day, and they ask every day.
Dana: No, no. But I mean, it's just one of those things where I feel that has rubbed off into that, like where it's very much live in the moment. you know, because I can very easily as a parent, worry about the future. And I, I mean, every day I, it, it'll hit you. Like my, my kids are still alive. they're still here. And that's not the truth for a lot of people.
You know, and it's just heartbreaking. Like, and you're just, I don't know. And so you're like, well, I just, I can't, I, not that you can't be upset about it or whatever, but it's like I just. love where I am. I look outta love today. I gotta know that they're gonna be okay today. You know, cuz you just, I don't know, you can get kind of stuck in that.
Courtney: Yeah. And I think that's the world that, the only world that they've known, so that's the way that they live every day.
I know. It's hard. Because you're trained differently. Yeah, I know. All right. Yes. That those all really great points.
Dana: Yes. We could literally talk forever about this. I know. so where have we effed up in this realm?
Courtney: Yeah. I definitely think managing a different generation is a learning curve for sure.
And I think that where we've effed up in the past is kind of adjusting how we're interpreting conversations or activities or like workflows or all of those things. I think that, I think that for a long time, and I felt, I feel this way just about getting older in general, is that there was a right way and there was a wrong way.
And if it wasn't the way that we said, then that was the wrong way. Mm-hmm. and I think that, being a manager the great thing about that is realizing there's actually like 30 bajillion different ways. Mm-hmm. and they can all be the right way. They don't have to be, it doesn't have to be attributed to right, wrong, or good or bad, it just is.
And I think that even like the conversation of like when some saying, you know, someone will say, I think that you need to pay me X, Y, Z, and this is the reason, like I can't tell you how many times someone's had that conversation and I took it so personally. Yes. You're so offended. So offended that like, why would you think, right that you deserve blah, blah, blah. And now I take it as like they're advocating for themselves. just because they ask doesn't mean the answer's yes. but they're, they should feel free to ask.
Dana: Sure. No, no, I totally agree. I think that's a hundred percent where we got it wrong. Like where we've just misinterpreted their actions. Mm-hmm. and, and I think even when I, when he was, when we were talking through it, and I, I even think for me it's even too vendor to vendor, like colleague to colleague. Because, you know, we deal with a lot of, we have a lot of Gen Z vendors as well, like really young people. Maybe they're on the cusp or whatnot, and some of their actions they do.
And, it's so offensive to me. Well now, hold on, wait a minute. Like maybe they're just doing what they think is best for them. Mm-hmm. like, and as much as I don't always, as a business owner, that's a really hard concept to say what is best for me right now, and not thinking through what's best for the business at that moment.
I don't necessarily agree. I don't agree with that business advice. But it makes me understand why they did it. It's not because they're greedy or selfish. It's because they're looking at it from, oh, this is what I need in order to have that self-preservation, in order to have that self-care to do the things that I want, so then I can be my best self to create this amazing business.
So I think that was kind of like another moment I was like, wow, I've probably just been totally misinterpreting how people are talking to me. you know, and misunderstanding what their intentions behind their words and their actions really are.
Courtney: I think it's almost, it's almost like when someone's advocating for their self or like giving you feedback or asking, I attribute it to something being wrong.
like, I was doing something wrong. Mm-hmm. or I wasn't good enough or what I was providing or, shaping or whatever wasn't good enough. so they had to ask, but instead just spinning it on, on its head of they're just telling me what they need and they're asking me can I meet that need? Mm-hmm.
yes or no. you know, not because of a lack Right. But Right, it definitely is a different, a different mindset for sure. It is.
Dana: Yeah. But I think it's been super helpful. I mean, that's like super helpful to like kind of really think about how to approach, you know, a couple of our employees.
Courtney: I'm excited for our listeners to hear it actually.
Dana: I know. Yeah, me too.