00:00:00 - Jackie Coffey
I think my favorite part of business is starting the business. I love the research. I love having to find out what it's going to take. So for me, because I've had logistics companies, I've had e commerce, I've had escape rooms. I mean, once you have that mindset, you just have this confidence to think I can do anything.

00:00:26 - Dana Kadwell
Welcome to hustle and gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I'm Dana, and we are two sisters who have started multiple businesses together. And yes, it is as messy as you think because we know that starting a business isnt easy.

00:00:39 - Courtney Hopper
Weve done it four times. And on this show, we talk about the ups and downs of the hustle and the reward at the end of the journey.

00:00:45 - Dana Kadwell
And this season, were talking all about the messy middle, you know, when you.

00:00:48 - Courtney Hopper
Have to decide to either grow or scale your business or maybe even take a step back.

00:00:52 - Dana Kadwell
And today were talking with Jackie Coffee, a self proclaimed multipreneur with her hand in numerous businesses, real estate investing, house flipping, rental properties, escape rooms, and motivational speaking. Jackie's journey to entrepreneurship began two decades ago with her first house flip with $0 to her name, it took her 202 phone calls to finally secure a no money down loan. That perseverance paid off. Jackie has flipped hundreds of homes, working with celebrities like spinderella, salt, and Peppa, and the Dallas Cowboys. Jackie, welcome to the show.

00:01:22 - Jackie Coffey
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

00:01:25 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah, that sounds like quite the journey. 202. Did you actually count them?

00:01:29 - Jackie Coffey
Well, I actually count them. They were written down because I had them on my printed, I'd say Google list. So, I mean, I was just marking them down and counting them as I went because it just took so much effort.

00:01:40 - Courtney Hopper
Lots of nos before you heard that?

00:01:41 - Jackie Coffey
Yes, it was nonstop nos. It was, it was, you know, most people probably would have quit after 50, but I'm like, no way. I'm not quitting this. I'm not giving up.

00:01:51 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah. So tell us a little bit about, like, your journey, obviously now, a little about this 202 phone calls. Like, really what got you thinking that this is what you wanted to do and kind of motivated you to kind of figure it out?

00:02:02 - Jackie Coffey
Well, it took me, I was always drawn towards real estate, but I didn't really know why, and I wouldn't actually find out why till like, 20 years into my career. And then my husband pointed out. So for me, it was very much rooted in my childhood. When I was about six years old, the FBI seized our house.

00:02:22 - Courtney Hopper
Okay.

00:02:23 - Jackie Coffey
Yes. And they took our house. So my mom was actually with a, like, a huge, like, heroin dealer, like, american gangster type of guy. Didn't drink, didn't smoke. You'd see him and think, this is a Wall street guy in a suit every day. And that was not the case. So this was a surprise to all of us. And so they took our house, and then we moved back to Venezuela, or we moved, not back. I'm from here. But my mom took us to Venezuela. So long story short, my dad had said, hey, we will buy you a house here because I know you're struggling.

00:02:56 - Jackie Coffey
She was a young mom with three kids. My real dad was like, we'll buy you a house back in Texas so you can bring the kids back and live here and have no worries. So we did that, and then everything was fine for a few years. We went to Venezuela for a few years, moved back here, and then I'm getting ready to graduate high school, and I find out as soon as I graduate high school, they're taking the house from my mom.

00:03:18 - Jackie Coffey
So I'm like, oh, my God. I'm like, what am I going to do? And I feel like it's on me because I'm the youngest. So the other two were able to leave and be carefree. But I know once I leave, what is she going to do? And there's this fear in me for my mom. I have to take care of her. And so I'll even fast forward a little bit later. I start my career, and even while my company is young, my mom has a boss that she has been working for since we moved back from Venezuela. And he tells her, because he's a huge real estate guy in Dallas. Huge. And he's like, I have a million houses, and I will let you have one since you've worked for me for like, 15 years now.

00:03:58 - Jackie Coffey
So he gave her a house. Well, fast forward, a few years later, he takes the house away again. So it had been in me for some reason to do real estate. I thought, oh, I'm just excited. I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I had to be. But I was pushed that direction for this fear and this pain of, I don't want to lose our house. I don't want my mom to lose her house. So somehow I developed the characteristics that would have saved her.

00:04:24 - Jackie Coffey
So I decide, you know, I'm like, 21 years old. I'm like, I'm going to flip a house. And y'all, let me tell y'all, I know nothing about flipping houses. I have no contractors background. I don't have any money. I don't have any credit. I literally am like, you know, I'm, I did a little bit of modeling when I was younger and we were on location for a couple of days, and I'm watching these people flip a house and I'm like, oh, they're doing such a crappy job. Look at that ugly color. Look at those stupid windows and just tearing this house apart. I have no rhyme or reason to be doing that, but I'm like, I could do it better. And again, knowing nothing about it. So I'm like, I'm going to flip a house. I'm going to do this. You know, I had my daughter and I was, like, super tired of being poor and I had three jobs and I was like, there's got to be something better. So I'm still pushed towards real estate. So I was like, I'm going to flip a house. How do I do this? And this is like 2004.

00:05:12 - Jackie Coffey
So there's no Google, I mean, YouTube. Like, there is now where you can learn anything. So I literally had to go to the library in my town and start looking up different kind of loans and lenders, and I finally find out that there is a loan called a hard money loan, and they don't base it off of your credit or your assets or your bank, you know, any of that personal information. They just base it off the house. So I was like, I can get one of those. Okay, I can do this. You know, so I go back, I go back home, go to my computer, and I start printing out a list of these hard money lenders, you know, and I print out just 30 pages of them and I start calling. And I'm like, okay, call the first ten. And they're like, no, not only, no, but no, no, you have no experience.

00:05:56 - Jackie Coffey
Even though it didn't matter for this type of loan, they were still like, we don't have any experience. You don't have any money. You don't have any credit. You don't have anything. Why would we, why would we give you money? We don't know you. So I just keep calling. I'm like, man, it said in this book that I can do this, so I'm going to keep on trying until I do this.

00:06:14 - Jackie Coffey
So I call. I mean, ten, it gets to 20, it gets to 75, and I'm like, oh, my God. And I get to 100 and I'm just like, I'm so done with this and I'm so ready to quit. And I was, and I was telling myself, I can't do this. I've called 100 people. No person in their right mind would keep calling anyone. Like, nobody. This doesn't make any sense. This is stupid. And I'm ready to give up. Like, I'm just ready to quit.

00:06:40 - Jackie Coffey
And when I'm telling myself I'm done, I start to have this very familiar feeling of something that happened to me when I was about ten years old, and I'm ready to quit, you know? And I think back to one other time that I was really ready to quit.

00:06:56 - Jackie Coffey
And I'll give y'all just, like, a little. I'll try to make the other story short, but when I was about, when we came back from Venezuela, my mom had a skating rink, so we were always there, me and my brother and my sisters. And, you know, we were pretty good at skating. We were there every day. So I'd be like, skating? And I'm like, oh, I'm such a good skater. And so one day, this little girl comes in about my age, and she has. I see her because she has this, like, holographic skates over her shoulder.

00:07:20 - Jackie Coffey
And I'm like, those are amazing. And, you know, I say, hi. I'm like, your skates are so cool. And she kind of snubs me. She's like, thanks, I know. And I'm like, oh, okay. So she starts to skate, and she's a pretty good skater, too, so we can feel this competitive tension, right? And then they call for the limbo. They're like, okay, well, it's time to do the limbo. And I'm like, ooh, I'm really good at the limbo. This is going to be, you know, so fun. I'm going to show her how super awesome I am. And, you know, I was going to be, like, a little bit arrogant. I was like, ten. I'm nowhere near like that anymore. And so we go get our, you know, we all line up for the limbo. And I noticed that she goes and changes her skates to a different pair of skates. And I was like, oh, that's weird.

00:08:00 - Jackie Coffey
Why is she doing that? And she goes, we all have on in lines. And she goes and puts on quads, which are four wheel skates, like your normal ring skates, right? And we line up and we're kind of, like, looking at each other and we're like, hey, hey. You know, and we're not really saying anything, but we all start to limbo. And it goes from, like, 30 people, and it goes down to ten, and then it goes down to, like, three. And then it's just me and her, and I'm like, oh, my God. I'm getting kind of nervous now. And I'm going under the second bar, and I hit it and I lose. She goes under, it sails through. She goes under the very bottom bar sails through. And I am devastated, y'all.

00:08:39 - Jackie Coffey
I can't tell y'all. Cause I'm. I grew up with a brother 13 months older than me, so I am super competitive. Everything was a competition. Everything, constantly. Even my husband now, he's like, stop that. But I can't help it. It's, like, instilled in me. So I am, like, devastated. Cause all my little skating ring friends are like, oh, you know, Jackie Brown got beat. That's my maiden name. Like, oh, you beat Jackie? And I was just. I was crying and I was mad and I wanted to leave.

00:09:04 - Jackie Coffey
And I told my mom, I was like, I'm done skating. I'm done with the limbo. I'm not doing it. So we went home. I cried myself to sleep. The next morning, we get up and I have to go to the skating rink the next day. Cause my mom has to open, right? We have to be there. And I'm like, I'm not going. I'm done. I quit. I am done with skating. I'm done with limbo. She crushed me, and it humiliated me to my core. And she told me two things. She was just like, okay. Like, while I was crying, she was like, okay, that's enough. And my mom is real sweet, but she's like, you pouted about it all day yesterday. Anything more than a day, you're just feeling sorry for yourself. Stop it. We have to make changes and find solutions. So she was like, okay, she beat you. Like, she beat you. You're going to let that stop you from doing something that you love and you do every single day? And I was just like, well, she beat me.

00:09:57 - Jackie Coffey
So she goes, okay, so you're never going to see her again, probably. So if you did, how are you going to beat her? So let's just say for shits and giggles that you do see her again. How would you beat her? And I was like, how? How? I didn't even think about how. I was just mad that I lost. It didn't dawn on me to ever say how. And as soon as she told me that, it, like, changed my whole perspective, because when I said I couldn't do it, it was just. It closed the door for any opportunity or any change. As soon as she said how it was like, okay, I can problem solve this. How? She switched her skates. I didn't. She had a different stance when she limbo. I didn't. So I started practicing, and I was like, every single day.

00:10:39 - Jackie Coffey
And I start doing it, and I will tell y'all, almost a year later to the day, this little girl comes back, and I forgot to tell you all this. She had. My mom told me this that morning. She goes, if it makes you feel any better, she had just left the world limbo skating championship in Houston and won. So she was the world champion. So if it makes you feel any better, you lost to a world champion. And I was like, it doesn't.

00:11:02 - Jackie Coffey
I feel so much worse. So a year later, she comes right back into my skating rink. And now I am nervous. I am not cocky. I'm not arrogant. I'm like, oh, my God, my hands are sweating. And we say each other, we say, hi, I'm real nice to her. And they call for the limbo again. And sure enough, she goes and switches her skates. But so do I now. So I'm like, okay, I might lose again, but I'm going to try this. So we all line up to the limbo. It's down to me and her again. And we're on the second bar where I lost at the last time, and I make it right through it.

00:11:35 - Jackie Coffey
So now we're both at the bottom bar. She goes first on the bottom bar, and she makes it. Then I go and I make it. So now they are holding the limbo stick, like, right under where it sets on. Normally, they're just holding it under so it gets two inches lower. So she goes first, and she hits the stick, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so scared. So now it's my turn, and I'm like, okay.

00:12:00 - Jackie Coffey
And if it's not bad enough, she's standing directly in front of me to where I'm, like, dead eyeing her the whole time. She's just standing there with her hand on her hip, just watching and waiting for me to lose. So I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so scared. And I can feel it, and I can feel all the blood going through my entire body. So I start skating real fast. I go. I go into a split, and I hold onto my skates, and I close my eyes for just a second, and I just right through it. And I made it. So for me, for like, a year, I was the unofficial, like, limbo champion, right? I was. That was it. I did it all by changing that one perspective. And mom told me, like, you don't say can't.

00:12:38 - Jackie Coffey
Just how can you do it? So now I'm thinking about that moment in my mind as I'm making these calls, as I'm hitting 100, and I'm like, okay. I feel like I can't do it, but how can I do it? How can I make this work? It's not working. How can I do it? So I was like, okay, I'm going to change what I'm looking for. I'm going to print different lenders. I'm going to go to different states. I'm going to print different criterias, and let's started at it again.

00:13:04 - Jackie Coffey
So I start going at it again, and I'm at 100 and 5175. I get to 200, and I am on my 202 phone call. And I talked to a guy named shane. His name is shane lex. And I was like, here's what I have. Here's the house I want to flip. No, I don't have any credit. No, I don't have any money down, but I need a chance, and I'm full of hustle and energy, and I can do this. And he was like, absolutely. And I was like, oh, my God, I was so excited, you know? And I feel like that's kind of a thing. Like, you're almost more proud of what you endured to accomplish the accomplishment than the accomplishment itself. So for me, I was like, that's it. I got it. And it changed my perspective on everything going forward for the rest of my life. Like, instead of just saying can't, instead of stopping the opportunity for growth, as long as I say how I can grow, I can change.

00:13:55 - Jackie Coffey
I can find the opportunities, and it changed my whole entire life. So I did that. I did my first flip, which was also a nightmare, but I quit after that one, and then I got to my second and my third, and it was the best decision I've ever made in my life.

00:14:10 - Dana Kadwell
I love that. So, like, what made you then trans, like, I guess go from, okay, I'm just gonna flip houses to now. I'm gonna have my hand in all of these things. And kind of that multipreneur mindset, like, what? Was there something that shifted or changed or what kind of brought you to that?

00:14:25 - Jackie Coffey
Oh, absolutely. And I think when it's such a small thing, but when you change that, when you flip that narrative in your own mind from something as small as I can't, how, and you realize it is possible, I can do that. I can grow from that. I can change this. I can do anything. It's almost like you're gaining a superpower. It gives you a confidence to say, I can take on this, this and this. And originally I just started flipping houses. And I was like, well, I didn't even want Reynolds because I was like, I don't want to deal with tenants. That's going to be, you know, I'm not going to like that. And then it was in 2008 when the market went down. I had my biggest flip ever that I sold. And it was scary because I had it for like six months. So it was pretty scary because I was like, I'm going to lose everything on this, but I'm not going to quit. I'm going to be here till the bitter end. So. But I ended up selling it, and I was like, I need to find a way to make myself recession proof to be good in a hot market, cold market. I have to make sure I'm taken care of no matter what. So I was like, I will do flips and I will do rentals. So I started doing both of those. And I think my favorite part of business is starting the business. I love the research. I love having to find out what it's going to take. So for me, because I've had logistics companies, I've had e commerce, I've had escape rooms. I mean, once you have that mindset, you just have this confidence to think, I can do anything. You find a way, step by step, instead of looking at this huge mountain that's in front of you, you know, metaphorically, you start thinking, okay, I can move this. If I just start doing it one block at a time, one step at a time. Look at myself as I'm taking one step, not looking at this massive thing, and then before you know it, you've just moved it, you know, from one side to the other.

00:16:06 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, I think that's so true. Like, I don't know, it's interesting that you connected that confidence to owning a business. I don't know if I would have made that connection, but I told my husband all the time, like, sometimes I think about it and it's like, I could go back to school and, like, I would, like, make all a's. Like, why wouldn't I? You know? Like, because it just feels like, oh, you can do whatever you put your mind to. If you just try hard enough, you work hard enough, it'll work out. Probably actually would not be the case if I was, like, trying to go to med school or something. But still. But it must be. It's interesting that you made that connection that it has a lot to do with. Probably does a lot with being an entrepreneur and recognizing, like, oh, it's just, you know, one little bit at a time. Yeah.

00:16:40 - Jackie Coffey
And I love. I love the aspect of being able to push. You know, I think if I'm being realistic, because I love the businesses I set up, my escape room, and then I have my mom and my daughter ran it. But it is for me. I don't want to say that I get bored once the business is good, because I've been in my real estate for 20 years, and I love it, but it's like I'm constantly. If I'm not doing something that scares me, I just feel like I am so idle. Like, am I pushing hard enough if I'm not scared? Every good thing I've ever dealt with in my life has come from a point of fear. Starting, you know, doing the first flip, knowing nothing about it, you know, buying your first house, investing, having kids, everything comes from a place of fear. And I think fear is such a good thing, and I want to be a little afraid. I'm like, sometimes I'll buy six houses at a time, and I'll tell my husband, I'm like, well, my God, I just bought all these houses. Am I gonna be able to flip these at one time? And he's like, of course you can. And I'm like, of course I can. But it's when you're in over your head a little bit that it brings out. I think it can bring out the very best of you. And I love that pressure. I love that pressure point, and I don't like to sit idle. So it's like, what else can I do? What else can I try? How far can I push myself?

00:17:51 - Courtney Hopper
It's like innovation is a product of necessity, right? Like, you get your most creative and innovative because it's absolutely necessary. Like, when you're, like, being held to that kind of do or die moment. For sure. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah.

00:18:04 - Jackie Coffey
Yourself to it as well. You know, when you. Because I've dealt with people before, and, like, I can't just get up and tell myself to do it. And I'm like, well, then it might not be you. I love holding myself accountable. Accountable. Accountability, it is my favorite thing in the world. And people are like, what? And I'm like, I tell this to my kids. I tell this to my daughter, my husband. It's like, when you are trying to do a business, you know, if you really. Because at first during the first flip, it was a mess. And I had my daughter's dad with me, and he had construction knowledge. And, you know, when it didn't, I wouldn't say it failed, but I made it across the finish line, barely. And I wanted to blame him. I was like, he had construction knowledge. He knew how to do this. Why didn't he help me better? And I wanted to blame him, and, you know, and I had to, you know, catch myself. And I was talking to my dad, and my brother actually yelled at me, my brother Scotty. And he was just like. I was complaining. I was like, oh, we did this house, and it was a nightmare. But Eric could have helped me better. And he was like, oh, no. He was like, you can zip that real quick. He was like, this is your flip. You wanted to do this. You decided to do it. You're lucky that he helped you, that mom helped you, that every. Because it was a mess. So he's like, ever. You're lucky that people came in to help you. This is your responsibility. And he's like, you're not going to be able to change him. And it just kind of dawned on me, you know, it's like when you're blaming other people, the solution is completely out of your hands. I can't change you. I can't change how they think or their mindset. But I. If I take accountability, then it grants me that control and empowers me to make a change. So that accountability, it's not about blame. It's just about owning the power to change things. So I was saying, hey, if Eric would do this, I wouldn't be able to do it again. That was my daughter's dad. If I would have rested on that, I would have been stuck. But saying, okay, what can I do better? What can I do different the next time? And owning that it made, it allowed me to continue on with my career.

00:20:02 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, I know. I find for me, like, a lot of my accountability, where I get the angriest I ever get in business, is really just. I'm just mad at myself. I'm mad at myself for walking down a path that I didn't fix before or trusting something I knew I shouldn't have trusted or whatever. And it's that moment of, I'm so mad, and I want to blame all the people around me. Like, oh, it's because all this failed or this didn't happen, but really what it comes from, when I look back on it, I'm like, oh, it's really just, to me, it's my own personal failure. Like my failure to lead, my failure to communicate, my failure to do whatever it is, but it does make you better and makes you more hyper aware of what's going on around you, see the signs quicker, and be like, hey, I don't want to walk down that road again. I don't want to do that. But that's such a rare, rare, rare, rare trait of personal accountability.

00:20:50 - Jackie Coffey
Oh, well, thank you. Yes. I try to teach that to my kids, too, but it seems like it's so much. People are afraid of taking accountability because they don't want to say, you know, it was my fault. But there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, it's. It's. I would rather it be my fault and me be able to change it and grow from it than to be able standing still saying, okay, it's not my fault, but now I can't do anything. I'm stuck.

00:21:11 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah, right. Yeah. Because you're powerless to make those decisions because you've given your power away to somebody else.

00:21:16 - Jackie Coffey
Absolutely. For sure. I'm all about it. If it's countability, like, yep, it's my fault. I will fix it. You know what? Matter of fact, I can tell that was your fault, but I'm gonna fix it anyway.

00:21:26 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah.

00:21:27 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah.

00:21:27 - Dana Kadwell
That is so true. It is so true. It's a very. It feels very much that way. Like, being in charge of a team, there's, like, this. This dance you have to do sometimes it's like, okay. Like, do they just need to, like, push the accountability off of themselves for this moment? And then you're like, hey, this is ground zero. And, like, we're never gonna have this. This isn't going to happen again. Or do you push back and, like, say, no, this is actually a problem that you have. Like, there's, like, this very fine line a lot of times because some people, they don't have, I don't want to say the strength, but they don't have the introspection to be able to recognize that. So to them, it just comes across as, like, aggression, you know, like, or they think it's someone else's fault or not.

00:22:06 - Courtney Hopper
I think it. I think it falls back on insecurity. Like, I think that you have to be a very secure person to be self aware and have that introspection. Like, it doesn't necessarily just because you screwed up or made a mistake or ended up in a spot you didn't want to end up or intend to be in, it doesn't necessarily go back to your worth, if that makes sense. And I think a lot of the times when people are passing the buck and unable to really look at their onus of responsibility in a situation, it's through insecurity. It's because they feel like it is a bad reflection of who they are to the core. They're not good at X or not good at Y or whatever.

00:22:41 - Dana Kadwell
But I feel like, too, you create that world, can have the most secure person, and if you create an environment where they feel insecure about their job or who they are in that job, or like, oh, if I make a mistake, then I'm going to get fired, or if I make a mistake, I'm going to have this consequence. And you haven't shown that, like, oh, well, I'm human, I make mistakes, and I'm still here. Like, this person made a mistake over here, and we didn't fire them for this mistake, whatever. I think that's a lot of issues when you talk about teams and corporate and whatnot, is there's this. They create that insecurity. And a lot of people, the fear of making mistakes is gonna have this, like, I don't know, bad consequence to it.

00:23:19 - Jackie Coffey
Well, that's what it is, what you just said. It's the fear. And I think people, you know, a lot of people. Cause I. People used to come in my office and they're like, hey, teach me how to flip houses. Teach me how to do this. And so many of them would have this fear, like, oh, I'm afraid to make a mistake. I'm afraid to look bad. You know, everyone said I shouldn't try this. And if I do, and if I fail, I'm gonna look stupid. I'm gonna. My mom or I, whomever, my spouse is gonna look at me bad, and they get so worried about what everyone else is thinking and so afraid that it's gonna.

00:23:49 - Jackie Coffey
That it reflects on their self worth. Like, no, you might have messed this up. I, you know, told y'all, when I say I botched the first flip, oh, my God, y'all. And I'll just roughly tell you a little bit. Like, I don't like orange shingles. I just don't like them. I'm not a fan of them. I like dark brown. This house had a year old roof with orange shingles. And I was like, I don't like that color. I'm just gonna change them. Now the investor in me is like, what are you doing? It's a brand new roof. No. And just all that. I changed things. I didn't need to change. I went over budget. I had to borrow money from my mom and my brother, and it's very humbling to have to say, okay, I have screwed all of this up.

00:24:28 - Jackie Coffey
And, you know, you're going to look bad and that fear is there, but you can. The difference between, I think, people that have that confidence or can gain that confidence or the success is how they see fear. And fear is, you know, it's not the end all, be all. It's not like, oh, man, I messed this up. I'm afraid, and now I can't move. When you see fear as an obstacle, it can really stop you. But when you see it as just energy, because that's what fear is.

00:24:59 - Jackie Coffey
Fear is just energy. And if you harness it, it can become the greatest motivation you've ever had. A kind of, like I told you all at the beginning, I was so afraid as an adult, my fear, you know, I developed, like I said, the characteristics that would have saved my mom because everyone took her house from her. And I was so afraid of that happening to me. And me and my husband, we had gotten divorced. We were together for ten years, and we're still friends now.

00:25:23 - Jackie Coffey
It wasn't like a horrible divorce, but when that happened, my company was still relatively young, and I had not really paid myself. I hadn't paid all the bills with it. He, you know, he was doing his part and I was doing mine, but I didn't have everything on me. So we separate. He ends up going to, like, a 13 month rehab program, and suddenly his parents pick him up that day.

00:25:47 - Jackie Coffey
And I'm standing there and I have two small kids. I have a ten year old and a five year old. And that fear washes over me completely. I am so afraid. I mean, I am paralyzed because I'm like, I don't know if I can afford this house payment. How am I going to take care of my credit, his credit, my car, his car, all the stuff the kids need, summer camp.

00:26:08 - Jackie Coffey
And I am so scared, and I'm so paralyzed at this moment. And I am, like, face to face with the biggest fear I've ever had in my life, which is losing my home or my kids feeling that sense of we're losing our home. And for me, I was upset that day. I cried. I went through all the emotions that you could go through. And the next morning I woke up and I was like, okay, I'm going to take a shower. I am going to wash this shit off.

00:26:33 - Jackie Coffey
We are getting rid of all of these emotions. And at the end of it. When I got myself together, the fear was still there, and I was like, all right, I'm going to use this fear. And it became the biggest motivator of my life after that moment that he left. And we were a great team when we were together. But after that moment, it was suddenly everything is times ten. I have to be ten times better than I was.

00:26:56 - Jackie Coffey
I have to take care of these kids. I have to do this all. There was no other option. And that fear, I just turned that into the best motivational energy I had ever had in my entire life. And it every year was three times more successful than the next year and the next year, and I kept pushing. But fear, in my opinion, is such a good thing if you utilize it the right way, if you can harness it.

00:27:18 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah. And I think that's, like, for business, too. Like, there is this, you know, because we're really talking about, like, the messy middle, right? Like, when you're in this messy middle of business, I think that fear is what dictates a lot of people of making decisions or not making decisions. Like, the fear of pulling back, like, taking a step back is the fear of what everyone else is going to think of you. And I've definitely had those thoughts. We've had lots of conversations like, oh, we have this huge thing going on, and what's the pr going to be? How is the rest of the world going to perceive us? And then the fear of scaling is the fear of, okay, well, if I'm this big thing and now I bring in all these employees, like, can I be successful? Is it sustainable? Like, there is so much kind of wrapped up into that. So, like, when do you feel like fear is something you should tap into as kind of, like what you said, like, harness it as your biggest motivation? When is maybe something that you've had where you're like, oh, I'm glad I listened to that and paid attention to what I was actually feeling.

00:28:13 - Jackie Coffey
Well, the first thing that I do is when I notice when I'm doing something with business, okay, and it's not working and it doesn't mean that you quit, okay? Like, if you're gonna. If something little you're doing is not working and it's failing, fail quickly, get over it. Like, let that go and go forward because a lot of people continue trying. And I'm not saying trying as I made the phone calls, but it's like, this isn't working. Now I have to change it up. And that can be scary, too. So for me, it's always evaluating the situation in every single step, on a step by step basis, you can't allow. I have a rule of thumb that I have because there's so many big decisions that I make. When I was younger, I was a lot more impulsive, and I was like, I'm doing this right now. And some things would not always work out well, and then some would. So I gave myself a rule that if it is a little bit of a bigger decision that I'm hesitant about in any way, or if I feel a little bit of fear or I'm unsure, I will, 100%, every single time, give myself 24 hours. I have to sleep on it, whatever it is, because at that moment, say, you know, I want to open a new business, and I'm excited. That excitement can take you, that adrenaline and excitement can take you so far. You're like, man, I'm going to make all these decisions. And then sometimes you want to do something, but, like, I'm so scared this isn't going to work. And those emotions take over every rational thought that you have. So I, this was probably, like my third year in business because I was making somewhat impulsive decisions, and I was like, I'm going to sleep on it. No matter what, I have to sleep on it. And the next morning, everything else dies down. All the fear or the excitement, everything finds a level playing field. And then you'll see that your decision making ability is a lot more clear. It doesn't mean you won't be fear. But now you've given yourself a little bit more time and pushed the emotions aside and said, okay, am I making a good decision or am I making a bad decision? And that's how I differentiate whether I should go or whether I should stay.

00:30:07 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah, that's good.

00:30:08 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, I think that's like, because I really feel like we really haven't even talked about this at all this season. We've talked to a lot of people that are like, oh, when you should pivot, when you should scale, when you should grow. And I think that there's some true business indicators, like easy, like tactical, when it looks like this, when x, y, z, or whatever. But there's. We haven't really talked about what it means to actually take that step, that emotional decision, to really put yourself out there even more, to push and ask yourself, am I pushing too hard or to make the emotional decision to say, you know what? This business isn't serving me the way I thought it was going to be. Like, I actually really hate this business more than I hate anything else. And I want to take a step back. And I think that that is, like, a really important conversation to have with entrepreneurs because sometimes, and I think every entrepreneur has felt this way, is, they feel caged, they feel stuck. Like, okay, well, this was my choice. This is my decision. And even reflecting on your brother's conversation with you, him saying, no, this is you. And you're like, yes, you're right. This was me. I was the one that said I could do this. I was the one that made the phone calls. I was the one that had the idea. And yes, it is nobody else's fault. And at the same time, that realization is so heavy. It's heavy to carry, and it's heavy. So then now you're like, okay, well, what's, what's the next best move? You know?

00:31:27 - Jackie Coffey
And that, and it is, it is heavy. It is, it is so heavy to carry. And I think that's why a lot of entrepreneurs are kind of a special breed.

00:31:33 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah.

00:31:34 - Jackie Coffey
And you really have to be, you know, like, my sister is, she's perfect, and she is not an entrepreneur at all, and she has no aspirations to be. She's like, I see what you, I'm not doing that. And making, she's like, you are crazy. But it, I think that the reward is so, it outweighs the heavy consequences completely. It's so worth it. And I think it also depends on what your individual goals are and what your wants and you personally, like I said, if I'm not in over my head, I'm not happy. I want to constantly push that boundary. So feeling a little bit of fear or feeling that, am I pushing too hard? Is a comfortable place for me. But a lot of people it's not. So if you're an entrepreneur still, that maybe you don't have that quality, you're not like, oh, I don't need to be in over my head. I just want my bakery, and I want to make some new cookies, and that's totally great, too. You might not want that amount of stress. So as long as you can self evaluate what your wants and your needs are and understand yourself clearly, then you can set the correct goals.

00:32:36 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah.

00:32:36 - Courtney Hopper
I think there is, like, a thing about, you know, really realizing, like, what's motivating you to take that next step. Like, are you, is this something that you're really passionate about, or is it a just because I'm bored or is this just because maybe I want to stay relevant or just because I just want to be challenged? I think there's all of these things, I think those are indicators for how much enthusiasm you're going to have to see it through. You know what I mean? I think like as an entrepreneur you have, you battle with all of those things you battle with and because everyone.

00:33:05 - Jackie Coffey
Some people are money motivated and that's great, they're like, I need a million dollars, cool, work towards that. Some people like, for me it was like, have to have a bunch of houses so no one steals my house like I did my mom. So it wasn't money wasn't necessarily the factor, it was security, it was making sure she's okay. And you know, for me it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't about the money, it was about I have to buy my mom a house so she's safe and so nobody takes it away from her. And so my reasons for doing what I'm doing are vastly different than the person down the street. So as long as you really know yourself and it sounds cheesy, but it's like, write it down, you write down what you want. And I know people say long term, I don't have long term goals. I might have in the cloud, like, okay, at 65 years old I want to have 1000 rental properties, that might be it. But I don't look at those. I look at from now to the next twelve months there and my short term goals are, here's what we're going to do this week. This is what I want and you have to write down what do you want from it and you need to look at it and you need to know it. Do you want to make a million dollars? Do you want to open it because you want that business or you want to feel that confidence? You want to be the business owner, whatever your wants are and they're all valid. It doesn't matter what it is, it's all valid if that's what you want to do and it's all justified. So write it down and then set your goals according to what you want, not what your spouse wants, not what your mama wants, not any of that. It's what you want because it's your life. Because I deal with people all the time, but like my spouse doesn't support me and I'm like, well this is you or this is them, you know, this is your life, you have one of them and right now you're regretting where you have been. So make decisions that you're going to be happy with.

00:34:47 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, I love that. That's such good advice. And I think too, like what's hard and I've had this conversation with, like, many, many people. Like, as you get older, right? So you think about, you said you started your business, you know, when you were young. We started our business. We were young. And why we started our business in our twenties is very different to me. Why I'm still in my business in my forties. Like, there's, there's two very different goals, two very different ones. One wasn't wrong. One was the right motivation to get me where I needed to be. But the one now is very much about, like, okay, like, what is going to give me the best life, right? Like, I can't, I can't live like I did in my twenties because I'm not 20.

00:35:22 - Jackie Coffey
I don't think any of us can.

00:35:23 - Dana Kadwell
I just can't.

00:35:23 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah, we all need better mattresses, and those cost money.

00:35:27 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, they do, you know, but it's just, but it's so hard. Especially, like, in industries where you're serving people, right? You have clients that maybe the reason why you started was because, oh, I want to be in service to somebody else. It's their most happy day, like being a wedding planner or whatever. Maybe there is, there was a portion of it. I want to control my schedule. I want to have financial security, and there's this, it's like that label that you can't shake. So now when everyone's like, oh, what's your why? What's your why? It's like, that has nothing to do with that. That actually has nothing to do with serving other people. I do. I enjoy it. It is a part of what I love about my job. But is that why I still have a business? Absolutely not. Like, I would just go work in, like, a food shelter if I want to, air food banking if I wanted to do that. Right? Like, there's reasons for it. And I think that there's something, especially as females, that we have a hard time saying it out loud if it doesn't have to do with our children, our spouse, or helping somebody else. We're afraid to say what it actually is. Like, we're afraid to be selfish in that moment. And, you know, a couple of, like, talks I've been giving, I say out loud, like, I want generational wealth. That's why I'm doing this. That's 100% why I'm doing it. Like, there's no other reason behind it, really.

00:36:38 - Courtney Hopper
What she means is she's a product junkie.

00:36:40 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, but it's more. I just joking. Yeah, but it is, like, I just, I don't want to. I don't want to ever tell when I'm 65, I want to retire. When I'm 50, like, I want to travel. I want to be able to, like, provide my child. If my daughter wants to be a teacher, what she does, God bless her, I want to supplement her income so that she can do something great for our country and her state and her community and not worry where her next meal is going to come from.

00:37:06 - Jackie Coffey
You know, I'm 100% with you. And it evolves, too. Like, when I started, the goal was, I want one. I had my daughter, and like you said, I want to make sure she's taken care of. I didn't want her to struggle. I didn't want to her to have to ever worry about losing a house. And that was what it was starting. It was like, I need a house for my mom, so she's okay. And now, you know, I was. I was able to retire myself at 33 years old. And as you continue, mine, for me, has constantly evolved. First, it was like, okay, I need to take care of my mom. I need to take care of my daughter. Now it's like, okay, I got my mom a house. Now my daughter's in college. She wants to be a doctor. She wanted to be a doctor since she was a baby. That's all she wanted to do. And it was like, I want her to be able to go to college and not have to worry about. She has to have two part time jobs while she's there. She needs something she's taken care of. I wanted them because we traveled a lot. We lived in Venezuela, like I said, and I wanted my kids to feel that, because nothing is more humbling than moving to a third world country. When you are seven years old and you are only. Cause I remember asking, I was like, I just want Mario Bros. Part three. And it was coming out on Nintendo. And that's how me and my brother, that's all we could think about. You know, we wanted that. And then we go to Venezuela, and we see these kids that are our age just walking around the street with, like, really, like, no clothes on and no food and no, that. Seeing that changed me, so. And it humbled me. I was like, what a jerk I am. Like, I'm asking for a Nintendo game. These kids are at our balcony just asking for food. And I just didn't ever want to be in that situation, and I wanted to make sure that I was constantly pushing. So it has evolved. So if you ask me why I do what I do now, there's like you said, there's so if you ask me, when I was 20 and then 25 and 30 and 35, and now that I'm 40, it's just been such an evolvement of where I've started to where I am. And I wanted my kids to travel and to see the world. And, you know, it was so important for me. And as long as you know what your, like you said, your goals, like, you're like, I want generational wealth. Then you see that and you know it, and you're making decisions based on that. So you're going to be aware and you're constantly going to be in a good place with yourself.

00:39:15 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, I think that's so true. I think that's kind of gets back to, like, making that decision of what do you do when you're in this kind of messy middle? It is really like saying your goals out loud, not being afraid of what those goals are, writing them down, and then recognizing, like, what step is going to get me there. And sometimes, you know, there's been a lot of conversations that we've had, like, where, this is my goal, this is where I want to be. And the step I'm taking is super scary. I don't love it. It's not a step I ever thought I would take, but it's the only logical one to get me to where we want to be.

00:39:44 - Jackie Coffey
And you have to allow yourself to be selfish, like we said. I think as women, like you said, it's in us, it's the nurturer in us. We want to take care of everyone, and we want to make it okay for everybody. I say this, and I love everyone around me, but I have been so selfish with my business. This is something that I started, and it wasn't a selfish of, oh, I want to keep the money or I want any of this. I was so proud every step, like, okay, I kind of finished this house and I did that. I didn't want to. I wanted it to be mine, and I wanted to be proud of it, and I wanted, you know, when you're younger, you want your parents to be proud of you. I think for most people. And then as I had my daughter, I was. I wanted so much for her to be proud of me. I didn't want her to feel like I had to survive my childhood. And it was such an important factor to me. And it's okay to, you know, you have to, like I said, as women, to allow ourselves to be selfish and say, this is mine. You know, me and my husband, we got married, and I had had my business already when we had got married, and, you know, we had talked about, oh, does he want to work with me? No. No. I don't let anyone in my business. And my current husband, who I love so much, I've been married twice. We, you know, even with him, he's a contractor. So for me, I'm like, you know, everyone's like, are you gonna let him in? And I'm like, no, no, this is my business. But anyone can work with me or help me, but this is my business. And I'm sorry if it sounds selfish, but I earned this, and I worked for this, and I have literally put every bit of my being into this. And it's okay for me to want to have that for me. And it's even saying it right now, it sounds so selfish, but it's not. And it's okay to say, I did this for me and I want this for me. And if it benefits my whole family, yes, that is the goal. But I want to say, I did this. I built this, and it's very important. And I think it's okay to give yourself a pass and say, I want to be a little bit selfish.

00:41:36 - Courtney Hopper
I think, too, especially, this is one of the things, like having a daughter, having daughters, that I reflect on, because I want her to be similarly selfish. I do not want to perpetuate the thought of living your life in service to somebody else or finding your worth and your ability to help or do or make other people feel better. Right. Like, I love the idea of really successful, selfish women that are, like, doing it because it's what they want to do. It's, like, what their purpose is, and it's what fuels them. And I think that's what kind of fuels our next generations. Right. Because they are watching. It's different than watching our parents. You know what I mean?

00:42:13 - Jackie Coffey
It's a whole different generation for now. Like, our parents were all coupled up in the eighties. I don't know how old y'all are, but I was.

00:42:19 - Courtney Hopper
We're in the 80s.

00:42:20 - Jackie Coffey
Yeah, it was weird, you know, if you saw a single dad with kids or whatever, now it's. It's normal for, you know, it to be such a blended thing, but a lot of times, and I know we're not super in this time, what I'm gonna say, and it might be a little bit controversial, but it was so important for me to be able to stand on my own 2ft. My mom had relied on other people.

00:42:39 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah.

00:42:40 - Jackie Coffey
To make sure we were okay and I saw that and I was like, absolutely not. I have to be able to rely on myself, which is, is a benefit to my relationships because if I can carry my own weight and my husband can carry his own weight, we are a power team. We're good. And I tell that to my daughter. And it also changes the dynamic for where a lot of women are. If you can stand on your own 2ft, you're not. And I love men when I say this, I love men. I love my husband, I love my son, I love men. But when it changes the dynamic, when you as a woman can stand on your own 2ft, you're not saying I have to be in this relationship because he pays the bills. I have to be here because he does x, Y and z. And my husband still does all that. But I'm not there because I have to be. I'm there because I want to be. And I think that is the best thing that you can gain as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, or even a mindset as a woman is to say, as long as I stand on my own 2ft, I can do whatever the hell I want. And it changes everything. And my daughter, who is the most confident 19 year old you ever met, but she is not snotty. She's so cool. She is like my very best little bestie. But she has this I can do anything mentality. And I've raised her with that. Like, when the escape room that I opened, I didn't, I didn't want an escape room. I took her to one for her 12th birthday and she was just like, you know, I thought I was gonna be stupid. I was like, oh, it's gonna be stupid and escape. There's gonna be puzzles on the walls, you know, I was like, whatever. And I was like, oh, my God, this was so fun. And she was like, you should open one of these in Waxahachie. And I was just like, maybe I should. Let me go and check the demographics on this. Let me see if it's gonna work. So I go check the numbers and I was like, okay, let's open one. Let's try it. I didn't know anything about escape rooms. I knew nothing about, you know, nothing. But I was like, let's do this one time. Let's go to other escape rooms. Let's talk to other owners. Let's research. And she was with me for the entire thing. So she has developed this mentality of just confidence that, you know, now, like, she wants to be a doctor. She's like, I can get into med school. She's like, I can get to Harvard. I have all a's. I do this. She was like, there's no question in her mind about what she can do. And I wanted to raise a strong minded girl that turned into a strong minded, confident woman. That way her options are endless. In life, you want to start a business? Do it. You want to be a doctor, do it. But whatever you do, be able to stand on your own. 2ft.

00:44:55 - Dana Kadwell
I think also I have a daughter and a son, and Courtney has two boys and a girl. And obviously you have a daughter and a son. I think it's so good for your sons as well to see what it, what it means to support and foster that in any partner that they choose, right? And even from, like, my daughter's perspective, like, just watching how much, like, me and my husband are partners and so much and how much he sacrifices for me and I sacrifice for him and whatnot. But recognizing as a. For your boys to see, like, oh, like, I should be creating a space for this person that I love to stand on their own 2ft. Like, I don't want them to have to rely on me for everything, you know, obviously, if it comes to, they need to. But, like, really encouraging their spouse, their partner in life to find what it is that allows them to be fulfilled, like, emotionally, mentally, financially, financially, all that stuff.

00:45:53 - Jackie Coffey
And my son, so, like I said, me and my ex are very good friends still. Him and my husband, my current husband, my son, we are very good friends. Like, I mean, we get together. We are your idea of how people should co parent. And my son sees that. My son even sees now that, you know, his bonus dad, which is my husband Doug, and his real dad, Jamie, how supportive we are of each other, how we have each other's backs. And because my husband, I mean, he still does so much. I mean, there will be a house and I'm like, we're out of budget. He's like, I'm going to come. I'm going to do a plumbing for you. I'm like, yes, because, you know, you can't rob Peter, pay Paul and take it from one budget. So my son is always such a part of it because I want him. And I'm constantly talking to him about women, too, and about business. I'm like, this is how you treat a woman. This is how you need to be in business. You know, he sells chocolate bars and I'm like, you can have half of that for you and half of it goes into your Roth Ira and so I'm always working on trying to shape them to be. To have the characteristics that I think that make really good people, you know, to be empathetic, to be that, but to be loving. And I think when you, you know, in business, they see all of us working together, even if we're not at the same thing, it really shapes who they are as men as well. Because my son has autism, and he's always with me, and he sees it, and he's so proud. And every direction he looks, he has either a strong man figure that is a very masculine, you know, because as tough as I am, y'all like. And I am. I'm independent of. And I am. I can do everything. And my husband is such a supporter, you know, he's like, I'm gonna let be the wind beneath your wings. And. And he's all for it. But he's still. No matter how well I'm doing, I still expect, you know, my husband to protect me, to provide for me, and to lead our household. And that's the recipe, I think, to make strong men and, you know, strong sons and strong daughters. So I think it's just really, really important that your son and your daughter get to see both sides of it.

00:47:47 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

00:47:49 - Courtney Hopper
I love that. I had no idea what direction that was going to go. I know we've only asked one question.

00:47:55 - Dana Kadwell
But I think I really love, like, I just. I love this conversation because I think it is such an important one to really talk about, like, what it is that you want, what your goals are, what that fear feels like in order to make these decisions, because we talk about the messy middle, and we talk about it almost cavalierly, like, oh, it's this, or it's that. It's like, no, these are big choices. Like, you are making big decisions when you're in the middle of business and deciding which way to go can. It can be emotional, it could be hard, it can be scary, and it could feel like you're taking a shot in the dark. And I think especially when you're in the middle of your business, you're like, I'm done taking shots in the dark. I did that in the beginning. I don't want to do that anymore. So I think this has been a really, really, really great conversation that will resonate with a ton of people. So thank you so much. Yeah.

00:48:39 - Jackie Coffey
Yes. Thank you all so much for having me. And I was going to say just kind of a little to what you just said. It is so messy. You know, you see all these entrepreneurs like on TikTok and on, and it all looks perfect. It's not perfect if your business is not going perfect, if your entrepreneurship or your journey is not, it is chaos for all of us at some point. So don't let that determine, deter you from consistently pushing forward because we all go through that. Don't buy into, it's perfect what you see online because it's not. We all have the messy middle.

00:49:09 - Dana Kadwell
Oh, yeah. And I think, too, like, what I think has been really interesting for us because we've, we've owned, we've been in business together since 2006. So it's like 18 years, and then the venue is ten years. And there's these moments when you're like, oh, my gosh, we're here. Like, we are cruising and I can cruise and I feel good. I've made such good choices and good decisions, and then it takes a very sharp dive and you're like, well, what in the actual fucked. I just happened?

00:49:30 - Courtney Hopper
What happened?

00:49:31 - Dana Kadwell
I don't know, but. And so you find yourself back into that messy middle and you have to make choices. And maybe it's not messy middle of like, oh, I need to make these massive, like, overhaul changes. And maybe it's like, you know what? Like, I thought we had a really great team, and now we're in this, like, really messy place with the team. Or I thought we had a really great marketing plan, or I thought we were hitting our ideal client. Like, all of these pieces, it's like a roller coaster. And if you're not on a roller coaster, it just means that you're not an entrepreneur.

00:50:01 - Courtney Hopper
I sometimes feel like the natural ebb and flow of it all is like, the success breeds complacency, which then leads to the demise, which then leads to your innovation. And grassroots is to get it back up, but then you get successful when you get complacent, and it's this whole thing that happens over and over again.

00:50:17 - Jackie Coffey
Yeah. I don't think as entrepreneurs, we get the luxury of staying on the coasting side very well. You're like, oh, look, I sold that house. We did so good. But now this house over here is on fire. It's always balancing, but it's also, no matter how scary it is, it's also part of the fun because you're seeing what you're made of. You really are. You're pushing and you're like, wow, I didn't know I was capable to manage twelve of those at one time, but look what I did. That was so scary. But I'll kind of go back to what I said before, and it's, we always end up being so much more proud of what we endured to accomplish it than the accomplishment itself. It's like, I can't believe I survived that. But here we are.

00:50:55 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah.

00:50:56 - Dana Kadwell
So true. So true. Well, how can our listeners connect with you if they want to reach out and sing your prayers?

00:51:02 - Jackie Coffey
Yeah. So they can go to my website. They can go to. So I do a lot of keynote speeches as well. And if anyone wants to book me for that, I am so happy to come because I have so much information that I love sharing and helping people grow and grow in this journey of their entrepreneurship. And they can go to, it's jackiecoffee.com. that's my website. And they can email directly to me there if they have any questions, if they want to book it. Anything about the entrepreneurial journey, even if it's not about just speaking, if it's just, hey, Jackie, I need a little help. I need a little perspective. You can always reach out to me.

00:51:33 - Dana Kadwell
Awesome.

00:51:34 - Courtney Hopper
Thank you. This is so good.

00:51:35 - Dana Kadwell
So fun today.

00:51:36 - Courtney Hopper
Yeah. Thanks for spending time with us.

00:51:39 - Dana Kadwell
Yeah.

00:51:39 - Jackie Coffey
Yeah. Well, thank you all so much for having me. And you all were like, lovely.

00:51:53 - Courtney Hopper
To learn more about our hustles, visit us on the gram at cndevents, at the BradfordnC, at Anthem House, and at Hustleandgather. And if you're interested in learning more about our speaking training, venue consulting, or our conference coming up, head to our website@hustlingather.com, and if you love us and.

00:52:10 - Dana Kadwell
You love this show, we'd be more than honored if you left a rating and a review.

00:52:14 - Courtney Hopper
This podcast is a production of your fluence. I'm Courtney.

00:52:16 - Dana Kadwell
And I'm Dana.

00:52:17 - Courtney Hopper
And we'll talk with you next time on hustle and gather.