Courtney - 00:00:00:

I think that relationships in general are like big teachers for us. And I think there's nothing like being a parent and raising a human that's like a huge mirror to yourself of like, oh, my God, why am I okay with this for me? But I would never allow my child. To go through this or to be that or to accept this. And for me, it's been a really huge growth opportunity for me to be like, hmm, if that's not okay for her, then it's not okay for me. I too am someone's child.

Dana - 00:00:34:

Welcome to Hustle & Gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I'm Dana.

Courtney - 00:00:39:

And I'm Courtney.

Dana - 00:00:41:

We are two sisters who have started multiple businesses together. And yes, it is as messy as you think, because we know that starting a business isn't easy.

Courtney - 00:00:48:

I mean, we've done it for a times. And on this show, we talk about the ups and downs of the hustle and the reward at the end of the journey.

Dana - 00:00:54:

And this year, we're talking with our guests about three important topics in our entrepreneurial journey. Things like team building.

Courtney - 00:01:01:

Work-life balance.

Dana - 00:01:01:

And how to recover from tragedy, both in business and in life.

Courtney - 00:01:05:

We're now in this part of the season where we're talking with some incredible guests on how they recovered after tragedy. You know, when you simply can't separate life from business. We'll be talking about how to handle those unexpected moments and how to grow and move forward through those experiences. Last week, we talked with Don Mamone about the tragedy of not being able to show up as our authentic selves.

Dana - 00:01:23:

So this week, the two of us are talking about the lessons we have learned along the way.

Courtney - 00:01:28:

All right. Well, that was such a great episode. I always love talking to Don. I could talk to Don for like hours and hours and hours. You have talked to Don for hours and hours.

Dana - 00:01:35:

I do.

Courtney - 00:01:35:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:01:36:

An hour and a half every week.

Courtney - 00:01:37:

Okay. So it's just like talking to an old friend.

Dana - 00:01:39:

It is. It is, a lot of similar conversations in some ways.

Courtney - 00:01:44:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:01:45:

It's definitely been an interesting journey for sure.

Courtney - 00:01:49:

Well, I think like before we get started, it'd be interesting just to even share with our listeners, like, what's it like?

Dana - 00:01:53:

So, I kind of approached it because we were just trying to get a better footing of how we wanted to show up as like our speaking, our training, consulting. There were things that we did which did I didn't like. And we weren't seeing an ROI on the back end of our kind of like talks and whatnot. And so I just felt like we were missing like some key piece in general. And so, it really started with, I wasn't really prepared for it to be truthful. I was just prepared for the time commitment of it, which was definitely a lot of time commitment. But we kind of start with a lot of like, creating that baseline of like who we are, where, like our kind of biases lie, how we think stuff like that. And really, the point of it is trying to unearth that like authentic version of ourselves and personal life, but really just in business as well. Like, what is it that where's our zone of genius specifically? And there's definitely like a, for someone, a high achiever, right? Someone overachiever, high achiever. My zone of genius has been perceived in many different things. Like you could say, yeah, it's this, it's this, it's this, it's this, it's this. And so it's hard to kind of narrow it down specifically to what it is that you feel is your zone of genius, but also that you know it to be true. And so, yeah, it was just a lot of like kind of working through that, unearthing some things, kind of pushing the way I think about myself, what I think about business, retraining the way you look at that specific business model that we've been going through. Like. You know, and how to figure out where the next steps are. So yeah, it's been good. It's been interesting.

Courtney - 00:03:37:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:03:38:

Yeah. So-

Courtney - 00:03:40:

We're going to get a dissertation at the end of it, like a thesis.

Dana - 00:03:42:

I don't know if you get a thesis. I think the hardest thing for me to do is to be real like genuinely. The hardest thing for me is to be unfiltered of what I think and what I feel because I filter so much of it as a probably fear of being judged fear of like upsetting somebody or or even making someone else look bad based on how I feel and so there is this exercise it was just like free writing like free writing of like who you are, because of who you are, whatever. And I did it. I was getting my tires changed. I had like an hour and a half. And so I just sat there and wrote it and did it. And it was just anything that pops in your mind, you just kind of write what exactly like what it is. And I wrote it and I read it and I sent it off. And in the session, he was like reading parts of it. And it was like. I mean, I'm an emotional person. Like if you know me, you know that I'm an emotional person, but it was honestly so heartbreaking to like read some of the things that like I, I thought and that I had never put into words or like regrets or just, I wrote about like being a kid and how uninhibited I was, how free I was and how much I would never ever recognize who I am now. Just like the amount of boundaries and walls and like things I've put up to just protect that, I guess that person that was there. Yeah. So it was interesting. They do a good job of unearthing of where you really are.

Courtney - 00:05:18:

Yeah, totally interesting. I know, well, probably your current project, if no one's heard about it, can we talk about this? Like your Medium, your journal?

Dana - 00:05:26:

Oh, yeah.

Courtney - 00:05:26:

Yeah, that probably came from that.

Dana - 00:05:28:

It did.

Courtney - 00:05:29:

Yeah, so you're doing a, Dana's a great writer, by the way. You are. Verbose she's very verbose brevity is not her skill, but she's such a good, yes, it's true.

Dana - 00:05:43:

Very true.

Courtney - 00:05:43:

She's a good writer. Every time Dana writes one of our speeches, we have to like pare it down by like three quarters. Because like, there's no way we're going to fit all these words in like 50 minutes. This is a 10-hour speech. She's on Medium writing about the lies that you've told yourself.

Dana - 00:05:58:

Or lies that I have been told.

Courtney - 00:06:00:

Right. Or lies you've believed or whatever. But I've read the first couple. They're really good. Very deep and poignant.

Dana - 00:06:07:

Very deep.

Courtney - 00:06:08:

Yeah, I can see myself in some of them. So don't take it personal, but you know, put it out there. Yeah. But I love that. I love that for you. So oftentimes when I'm like doing yoga, I've just started this recently in the last year or so. I have a journal beside me. Cause like the things just pop up, like as I'm moving my body and working through things and I'm like, oh, I got to jot that down. So I think, I think it's a good, good exercise. Like that kind of free, free writing, like whatever inspires thoughts to get them out on paper. It's cathartic.

Dana - 00:06:34:

It is. It's really hard, though. I had to recognize that my experience does not necessarily mean somebody else or something else is bad, right? There's always been this thing like, well, if I feel this way, then that means I'm saying that this person that did this is bad. So there's a lot of things about like I talk about my childhood and it's like sometimes I'm like, I had great parents, like they weren't terrible people, right? But there's these- And I hope that, you know, it comes across as like that doesn't mean that they were terrible parents. They were not terrible parents and are not terrible parents. But it doesn't mean that my experience was less because of that.

Courtney - 00:07:12:

I'm sure there's going to be some more surrounding it. Just wait. You know there are.

Dana - 00:07:18:

I don't know if she even reads them.

Courtney - 00:07:19:

She reads them.

Dana - 00:07:21:

Okay, lovely.

Courtney - 00:07:26:

I'm, how do I know that and you don't know that?

Dana - 00:07:29:

Because she doesn't talk to me about it. They're afraid of me.

Courtney - 00:07:31:

Are they?

Dana - 00:07:32:

They don't talk to me. I think they are. I don't think they talk to me. They don't talk to me about shit because they know I don't deal with it.

Courtney - 00:07:37:

I think it's good. I love that you're doing that. I think it's such a great exercise and I'm happy for what it breeds on the other side. But I felt a lot of this kind of intertwines with some of that, like the same kind of mentality and coaching. So I don't know if we start with personal business or overall, but let's start it personal.

Dana - 00:07:53:

Sure.

Courtney - 00:07:53:

Yeah. Okay. What was your biggest personal takeaway?

Dana - 00:07:57:

It's never easy, but on the other side, it's always worth it. I feel like that's something that I have realized the past year in general. It wasn't a new thing, but I think it's such an important thing to say. And I really loved that. I think for so many times when you have to make a decision and you have to move past something or you have to pivot or whatever, like, oh, it's going to be so hard to me so hard. But once I get to the other side, it's going to be worth it. It's going to be perfect. It's going to be fine. But I think the point of that is that it's never easy. Like even when you get to the other side, it is still hard. It's still hard to be in that space and to not want to go back to where it was before. Or it's still hard to, you know, come to terms with the truth of who you are or a relationship or something like that. It's never easy. But you can still look at it and say, this step is still a hard step I have to take. This is still a hard path I'm on, but it's so worth it because of what it brings on the other side or what it brings to you specifically. And I think, you know, a lot of it's, I think, peace and really, it's just peace. I don't even say joy because I don't even think everything you do is joy. But to me, it's always what I'm seeking after is peace and contentment. And that's what, you know, when I started working with Don and they asked me, what do you want? I was like, I want peace and I want contentment. I don't want to feel like I have to constantly be going, going, going, going. And I have to constantly doing the next thing because I'm so afraid of not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm so afraid of losing this success that I have. And in order to maintain it, I have to be on this board and I have to teach this class and I have to go to these cities and I have to talk this much and I have to make this course and I have to, have to, have to, have to like, I want contentment and I want peace. I want to know that I'm on the path of growth. And I'm not just throwing spaghetti at the wall, which is what we've been doing, I feel like, for freaking 10 years. Throwing spaghetti at the wall. And it's exhausting.

Courtney - 00:09:51:

Yeah. It sounds messy.

Dana - 00:09:54:

It well, it is very messy. Have you seen our office/the Bradford? I don't mean, I mean like figuratively, all of it. It's messy.

Courtney - 00:10:01:

Yeah. Oh yeah. One, I feel like all of these talks could be like a whole entire podcast, but I firmly believe that I think this on a couple of different levels, like one. I think this from the boss perspective, like just because something's hard, doesn't immediately mean that it's bad. Like, I think that there's like this whole generation, even with our kids, it's like, just because that's a hard thing doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Like we've equated big efforts with bad. Do you know what I mean? And so I think there's like that kind of like renorming in your, that some of the best things actually were really, really hard things. And I think two that, obviously personally, and I relate to so many of, of, you know, what, what our guests are talking about or whatnot. Getting divorced and whatnot. And like kind of going through that transition, like with the kids and blah, blah, blah, like definitely wasn't easy and it's worth it. And even on the other side of it, I have like so much gratitude for where I'm at and so much anger at the same time. Like it's both. And like, it's never easy. I'm still processing, even in the middle of it. And I'm in a good relationship and you know, it's going well. But then there's even a part of me that like, still, I'm like, why do I have to get to know other kids? It's not that I want to be married to Mikhail with my kids. It's not that, but it's like, here I am at this part of my life. Like, this is hard, you know? And like, why, why is this my life? Like, why is it to like, love this person? And it comes up, and this thing for me. Why is it to love me? Like, it comes with all of this too, you know? And it's like, not easy at all, but it's like, I'm constantly reassured that it's worth it. You know what I mean? But I think it's just this theme in life. Like even look back at like the Bradford, like anything big that you've ever accomplished wasn't easy, honestly. Like it didn't just land in your lap. Even when you like look at someone like Taylor Swift, who makes it look effortless, who obviously had some talent, it's not easy. You know, like she's put so much effort into it. And that effort wasn't bad. Like it rewarded her with the life that she wants, but I'm sure there's also that comes with concessions too. You know what I mean? And so I just think that. I just think that we need to get out of the mindset in general that just because something's hard, it was bad. Because that is just nothing can be further from the truth. I think.

Dana - 00:12:22:

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, totally. And I think that's, you know, it's hard to teach your kids that for sure, because that is very much what they feel like, because life is supposed to be so easy. But even just with school and, you know, or with Henry, Ada puts a lot of effort into things and she gets the rewards of that effort. And Henry doesn't necessarily get those same rewards. But we're trying to talk to him about like, this was really hard and you worked really hard and, but it was really good. Like, look what you learned. Look how, like how, look what you accomplished. You know, maybe it wasn't this A that you wanted or the B that you wanted, but still like you've learned how to write an outline. You've learned how to brainstorm and you know, you've learned these things. And trying to find, you know, for him, for the kids now, it's like your middle school doesn't really fucking matter. Like, it doesn't matter.

Courtney - 00:13:11:

It doesn't matter.

Dana - 00:13:12:

It's very grades don't matter. Like, the only thing you're supposed to get out of middle school is how to be a good student so you can be successful in high school.

Courtney - 00:13:18:

Yeah. And like a sociable human.

Dana - 00:13:21:

Yeah. But like, so I think when you take that kind of pressure off and say, okay, like, what is it that you can learn from this hard thing that you did? What is it? How can we view this as a success as much as possible? And so that you feel that, you know, this thing you went through wasn't necessarily bad, but it was a positive thing.

Courtney - 00:13:38:

Which I know Dana is the best parent for that. Because she's like a walking afterschool special. She's like, by the way.

Dana - 00:13:45:

This is what she tell you at six? Sixth grade is like totally going to break me. I finally was like, you know what, buddy? The specials are over. Oh, because I think everyone's just tired. I was like, I'm done lecturing you about, I'm done having these like heart to heart conversations. Here's the rule. You have a zero. Like, we're not even going to talk about it. You have a zero. You have technology taken away for two days for every zero. That's just what it is. We don't need to talk about why. We don't talk about it. That's just what it is. Done. I'm out of words.

Courtney - 00:14:13:

Replay one of those.

Dana - 00:14:14:

I've said them all. I know. So, you can record it and so you could just say it.

Courtney - 00:14:19:

I know.

Dana - 00:14:21:

Cheers, Louise.

Courtney - 00:14:22:

Yeah. So my personal was, I'm not willing to show my daughter it's okay to hide who you are. And I feel like, I guess for me, it's more just kind of like that playing small or like, becoming a version of myself that's more acceptable to whatever, whatever the situation is, you know, like, I feel like, you know, the world and by the world, I mean, like my bubble needs me to be me. And when you play small or like kind of change who you are, your thoughts and your opinions and what you find acceptable and not acceptable. I think, I like to repeat Don, like it's a tragedy and I don't want, I would never want for my daughter took her up thinking that that's okay. Like, I don't want Nora to ever be anything more than like, because Nora's a big personality too, than her, you know, like big Nora personality self. You know what I mean? And I just think that. I think that relationships in general are like big teachers for us. And I think there's nothing like being a parent to like and raising a human that's like a huge mirror to yourself of like, oh, my God, why am I okay with this for me? But I would never allow my child to go through this or to be that or to accept this. And for me, it's been a really huge growth opportunity for me to be like, hmm, if that's not okay for her, then it's not okay for me. I too am someone's child, right?

Dana - 00:15:41:

Right. Yeah. Well, I think too, like one of the, like for me, like a turning point in a lot of these past few years was also Ada. Because Ada is super empathetic and she is a really good people reader for the most part. And so she can recognize like dynamics and she really started picking up on the relationship I had with my in-laws and how different I was. And she very, one time we were in the car and she's like, mom, why are you so weird when you go to Grammy and Grampy's house? I was like, how am I weird? She's like, well, you're really quiet. You don't say anything, you kind of just sit there. And I do like, I am like the most untamed version of myself. And I'm not like an overly loud person in general. I'm a very opinionated person and I can, I talk all the time. I'm very extroverted. I am not an introvert, but there's not an introverted bone in my body, which my kids think is crazy. They're like, everywhere you go, everyone's your friend. You know, so many people. And I was like, well, I do know a lot of people, but yes, I like talking to people. And I was like, oh, well, you know, like, it's just, I'm not, I'm just not their cup of tea. So I just kind of hang, just hang back. Like I just hold it back. I just kind of survived the moment in a lot of ways. And I could see, and this was a couple years ago, and you can see as she's getting older, she's trying to become the person that she thinks her grandmother wants her to be. Down to things like, Ada has a very specific sense of style. She always has. Always has, her entire life, very much. And she like, well, just whatever anybody gives her, whatever Sam would give her something, she'd be like, oh, my God, I love it. I love it. And she hated it. Like, she just didn't like it. And I was like, it's okay to say you don't like it and maybe suggest to go shopping together or whatever. Or I could just see her, like, holding back, like, who she is and, like, a comment she'll make. Or, like, I know she's super sassy and super sarcastic, like, to an insane degree. She's not like that at all. You know? Like, she's just not quipp and she's very quiet. And I remember I was like, I told Sam, I was like, I think I'm training her to be, to adjust to expectations of what someone else wants her to be. And I don't really love that. And so I, you know, I pulled her aside. I was like, hey, like, why are you acting? I was like, why are you acting weird? And she's like, well, you know, I just, I just thought like I didn't want to like offend them or be or upset them or whatever. And I was like, no, no, you're 13. You be whoever the hell you want to be. Like you say whatever you want to say. The only rule is you can't say the F word around your grandparents. I think that's perfectly fair rule. But other than that, like be who you want to be. Like,

Courtney - 00:18:22:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:18:23:

You know, and it was very much that moment of like, oh, she's just learning it from me.

Courtney - 00:18:26:

I know. And I think as women, we do that to our daughters. I think like we are just so naturally adept at like conforming to being the least objectionable, very people-pleasing. Like it's just kind of like, even like growing up in church is kind of how we're taught. Like you're supposed to be this demure, quiet, whatever. Which has like never been me. But it was me. But then you teach, you unintentionally teach that to your daughters. Like, oh, that's how you are. Oh, that's how she acts. That's how, you know, and it's like, no, no, no. Like that's not how we act at all, you know. Yeah, I love that. All right, what was your business takeaway?

Dana - 00:19:07:

My best takeaway is that we are so focused on the fallout. We don't think about the windfall.

Courtney - 00:19:13:

I loved that. That was actually my first business takeaway too. I have adjusted.

Dana - 00:19:17:

I think it's. I think it is so, so true. And it feels so on point for where we are right now in our business right now. Like just, every single time like we have had to make a pivot or an adjustment there is so many conversations between me and you about like what's the fallout what's the fall what's going to happen what's going to happen like and you you kind of make a mountain out of a molehill really like you're you're creating this alternate narrative and reality that you're like, oh this is going to happen if this let this person go then this, is going to do this and this, this, this, this, this. And definitely there's strategy when you're hiring and firing, for sure. There's strategy there. I don't want to discount that, but it's always worth it. It's the windfall that comes from the back end of it. It's always worth it. And, and yet we still, even to this day, we're like, Oh my God, we don't want anybody to quit. We don't want someone to quit. And I'm like, and finally I was like, why, why, why does it fucking matter? Somebody quits? Like why? Because every single time we've had to make a change, that person has quit because they were burnt out. They weren't a good fit or whatever. And then there's been someone that's come in and made it amazing. And it's been such a better experience. So like, why are we always so afraid of the fallout when we know the windfall is there?

Courtney - 00:20:31:

I think we're naturally like humans are naturally opposed to change. Like just kind of like talk yourself through it in general, you know, because I think there's just like that inclination to be like, Oh, like status quo is what's safe. There's like, you're always constantly trying to avoid what's scary. You know like, the unknown is scary like it could be could be could be and they're just like, I think that's just the human condition of staying in your safe lane as opposed to edging out into what's scary, but I think that in business, it hurts you. I think too, another way that I think about it too, when you're making big policy changes and like, we've done this with the bar and oftentimes to kind of look at it with like, how can we make this the most palatable instead of like, how can we market it in a way that's different than everybody else? Like you've taken, like we have a really cool bar idea and concept for our industry. And we, and of course, innovation and stuff like that tends to cost a little bit more or whatnot. But I think we've made it definitely very palatable. We kind of worry about, Ooh, is this going to be too high? As opposed to like, wow, look at what we're offering you that you can't get anywhere else. I think even in the marketing, we kind of try to make it smaller as opposed to the big cool thing that it is and getting those clients that would think it's the big, then you're getting the client that's like has that more scarcity mindset and not the one that's like, wow, this is the big cool thing that I've been wanting.

Dana - 00:21:50:

But it's actually one of the things like the next person that we hire, the question I want to ask is how do you deal with change?

Courtney - 00:21:56:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:21:57:

Like how do you deal with change and challenge? Because that has been my biggest beef and my biggest like really bone of contention with really honestly 90% of our employees that we have had in the past and have had even now is change. Like they're so afraid to change. They're so afraid to try something new. And they just get stuck and like, oh, but this works, but this works, but this works. I'm like, I get that it works, but just because it works doesn't mean it's the best. Like, and it is one of the things where I, my next person that I hire. Like, I want them to be able to make changes and to pivot and to be able to look at things from a different perspective and be excited about it.

Courtney - 00:22:36:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:22:37:

And, and I don't know if it's because we are entrepreneurs because we had to pivot so much. We had to deal with change and we're used to it and it's, and we've seen, okay, well, when we weren't afraid to make this change, like all this great stuff happened, and they just haven't had that experience yet. I have no idea why. I don't know if it's their age. I don't know the psychology behind it. I have no freaking clue, but it is literally the most frustrating thing to me.

Courtney - 00:23:00:

It's hard because Bradford's like unrecognizable now, like the way that we operate and how we do things. It's like, not even the same like thing as it was.

Dana - 00:23:08:

Like if we had never pivoted or changed, it would be what it is.

Courtney - 00:23:10:

I know. So it's like, but I guess for us, we have the perspective of like, it's been a million changes and that's all for the better. It's some for the better, some for the worse, whatever, but it's all been fine. And it's like, maybe they just don't see that. I don't know. To me, it's more about the trust. Do you trust change?

Dana - 00:23:27:

Yes, exactly. It's do you trust and do you respect it?

Courtney - 00:23:29:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:23:29:

And maybe to be fair to them and what their life they've been through is, you know, COVID was a big deal and that was a massive change. And that wasn't something that necessarily everyone found was like a positive thing or a good thing. And so I think there is a lot of fear of doing something different and, you know, oh, this is how I've survived. This is how I've been successful and I don't want to try or do anything else. But it's tough, man. It's just, it's such a, it's such a depressing life if you're afraid to change.

Courtney - 00:24:01:

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I 100% agree.

Dana - 00:24:04:

I can't. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:24:06:

Well, I think my business thing was kind of similar, was that your brand is an extension of getting back to the marketing. Your brand is an extension of your identity. And your marketing is an extension of your voice. Like, when you're talking about business, that your brand is an extension of your identity. And I think in some ways, that's us. In some ways, it's not. And then your marketing is extension of you using your voice. And I think kind of getting through to that, like, thinking about marketing our bar in particular, like utilizing that voice of like how we really see it and view it, like what we're offering clients, like making sure that that's what's being said.

Dana - 00:24:40:

Yeah, it's as it should be. And it's like I said, we were talking about the podcast, like it's the only way to differentiate yourself from something else. And there has to be this uniqueness for the most part for you to get to the point you want to be. Will you book clients being a lemming? For sure. Will you book the amount you want? Probably not. Like, you know, so there's definitely, that piece of it. But what I struggle with for us is, is it still our voice?

Courtney - 00:25:06:

Yeah, it gets harder and harder. Like the more layers you have there, it's much further away from like,I don't even recognize that, you know?

Dana - 00:25:13:

Well, yeah. And that's why sometimes you take a step back and you're like, hey, now, like, this is not how we're doing things because this is what we value. Like, we value this, you know, like for us, like one of our biggest and still to this day, our biggest core value is community. And so when the community reaches out and says, I want to do X, Y, Z, we're like, here you go, have it. We'll do it for you because it's our community and it's a rural community. They don't have a lot. That's like the nicest place. People will have their eighth grade dance and daddy daughter dance or whatever. And we want to provide that for them. And we don't ever talk about it. We don't ever talk about it on our socials. No one knows that that is a core value of ours.

Courtney - 00:25:53:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:25:54:

You know, because that's our voice. It's not their voice.

Courtney - 00:25:57:

That's a good point. Yeah. Okay.

Dana - 00:25:58:

Do you know what I mean? And so when you have these, like what you said, these layers, how do you, and this is where we have failed. Truly, as bosses, to be transparent and candid here, is that, we have our service day. We have our mission day. We have all these things that we tell people to do. I don't know if we have found the people that have embodied it fully. And that love it and that embrace it. Like there isn't anybody that's like, oh my God, I can't wait to work this daddy-daughter dance. It's going to be so much fun. So good for the community. It's more like, who the hell's going to work it? I don't want to do it. Do you know what I mean?

Courtney - 00:26:38:

I do know what you mean.

Dana - 00:26:40:

That's not who we are.

Courtney - 00:26:41:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:26:41:

It's just not who we are.

Courtney - 00:26:43:

Yeah, I know.

Dana - 00:26:45:

My point is, is that I think that you can, it's a really easy audit.

Courtney - 00:26:49:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:26:49:

It's really way to say, is my brand coming through my marketing? And I think if you want to say our brand is having great hospitality, beautiful events, we believe in inclusivity. We believe in creating a seamless day. Yeah, that's our brand. 100% that's coming through in our marketing. No question. There is like, it's not so far off. There is pieces of it because I think our whole team embodies and has that voice. But there are smaller things that we as owners and as we built our business on that, those small, tiny little voices have gotten lost in the growth, you know, and forgotten along the way. And I think that's what sets you apart. Tell me another venue in downtown Raleigh that just gives her space away for free because the school wants to use it. Nobody.

Courtney - 00:27:39:

Yeah. We'll put that on social. We give our space away for free to schools that want to use it. The girls will love that. All right. Overall, my overall truth that I loved, and I've always said this, is truth is a perception. Like I don't actually believe in absolute truth. Like even first person telling, you're still, like I've tried to have this conversation with my father multiple times that like, the truth is even as you're hearing it from a first person, it is still being filtered through their emotion and how they felt about what was happening about it. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's still very much, even though it can be very close, is still very much tainted with that person's perception. So I think when you talk about people and you have differences of opinions and you have a different way that you felt about a situation, like I think there's a lot of empathy that can be gained from the fact that nothing's the truth and nothing's really actual, but it's really the emotion of the experience through the emotion that you're bringing to the situation. I think it allows you to agree, to disagree or come to understandings or really understand the human experience better.

Dana - 00:29:00:

Right. Well, I think it's a healthy way to look at that there is an absolute truth, because I think that when you convince yourself that this is the truth above all else, that when something challenges that truth and maybe it comes out that that truth wasn't real, it's crushing. It changes the core of what you are. And this is, I might have mentioned this before. I can't remember, but I was listening to, I was watching some video or something and it was the guy. I don't remember what it was, but it's a guy who goes to like all these like political rallies, like these Trump rallies. And he asked them a question and they're literally contradict what they say all the time, right? And they're they're funny. Like, they're just funny. They're people are poking fun at the calling them stupid or whatever. And so he was being interviewed about this and he was like, totally like. He's like, you know, I thought that it would be entertaining. And he's like, and obviously it is entertaining. He's like, but what I learned is that. That what they believe, it is a core of who they are. So whereas you can tell me, like, I can say, hey, I believe the sky is blue. That's just a belief that I have. That's just something that I believe to be true. And you can come to me and say, oh, but no, the sky is this color, this color, this color, all this proof. And then I might be like, huh, interesting that that's the case. But when you believe something to be an absolute truth, it becomes to the core of who you are. Like it is in your DNA. So then there is no way that anybody could ever tell you that you're wrong. And so, that's what these people, these extremists on either side, to be fair. It is in the core of who they are as a truth it is they're a part of their identity. And so they're not going to let you question their identity. They're not going to let you question what like, who they who they are because they can't survive it. Because now you're telling them that they're no longer this person that they thought they were. And so they're going to double down. They're going to push back. They're going to keep on believing this truth because they have to for like self-preservation. And it was a really interesting way. And that's, and that's how I approach my dad. It is the core of who he is and is in his DNA of what he believes. There is no room for conversations. We don't have them. He knows we're not going to have them. He doesn't try to have them because he can't survive it when the truth comes out. You know?

Courtney - 00:31:19:

What was your favorite overall takeaway?

Dana - 00:31:21:

Fear exists and gets to be welcomed. It means you're pushing past your comfort zone.

Courtney - 00:31:26:

Mm-hmm.

Dana - 00:31:28:

I just think it's very true. I, I think it was one of our very first podcasts. It was Bethany Howard.

Courtney - 00:31:34:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:31:34:

She's talking about fear as a driver. You can have fear. It's either the driver or the passenger or they're in the backseat.

Courtney - 00:31:40:

Right.

Dana - 00:31:41:

And I use that example all the time. I was actually just talking to Ada about it. She plays basketball and she will get these fast breaks and she'll be going. And she has, she's like one-on-one with somebody. And all she has to do is like do a little like, crossover and she'll be able to get to the basket or the person will foul her or whatever. And she stops 90% of the time.

Courtney - 00:32:01:

And she passes it.

Dana - 00:32:03:

Or she just takes a jump shot and misses it or whatever. And so we talk about it and she's like, are you like, what's wrong? She's like, I'm just afraid. It's like, I'm afraid of it. And I was like, well, and in basketball, there's a lot of reasons why she does certain things like she passes too soon or whatever. She's she has that fear, like she's going to make a mistake or they're going to get the ball or whatever. And I was telling her, you know, like fear is good. It means you care. Like we want to have that feeling. I said, but you have a choice of where your fear sits. Is it driving you? Is it determining where like you have no choice as to what it's doing, whether you're passing the ball, whether you're stopping, is it in the passenger seat and saying, well, maybe you should do this. And you're maybe listening to them and telling it, but like you still have some control or is in the backseat just asking you to turn up the music. You know, like you, you have a choice as to where it's supposed to be, but it's never going to go away. And then when it starts to go away, it means you've stopped caring and we don't, we don't want to get there. So, cause she was just like, I wish I wish I didn't have, I wish I wasn't afraid. And I was like, you, that's just life. Like you have, if you're doing something you love and that you're passionate about, there's going to be a feeling of fear there. Because you're afraid to fail because you love it so much.

Courtney - 00:33:10:

Yeah. I love that. I totally agree. I mean, I think that there's been many things that we've done in our life that have been, you know, didn't have the answers. And there was definitely fear. And there's, I would definitely say it's pushing you out of your comfort zone. But I love we accept fear, but fragility we don't. Right? You can be fearful, don't let it prevent you. Don't allow it to be, make you fragile. And I feel this way again, like strongly about like raising strong women, you know, like it's going to be scary. There's going to be scary things. Like big things in life are scary. Because again, because it means something to you. Because there could be failure. Because it's not comfortable. But that shouldn't make you fragile. Like don't let it paralyze your decisions. Because that's like a life not well-lived. You know? But I love that. Like accepting, we accept fear, but not fragility. I love that. Yeah. So instead of doing like a fuck up of the week, something that we don't like about ourselves. So it's a fuck up of our life. Not the week, it's always with us. I mean, I've come to the good thing about being a co-parent and having a lot of alone time is you get a lot of time for self-reflection because it's just you and your head. So you get to reflect on a lot of these things about your life and yourself and your person. But there's several things that I don't like about myself. And I think I've talked before about like my kind of like scatterbrainedness, procrastination type, especially when I'm stressed. I'm very much that way. That seems like the easy answer.

Dana - 00:34:36:

I think that for me, It is my ability to catastrophize things. Like I have a hard time when things are going well in the present to then future cast very negative things. Or like if something is just like, it's just even slightly off and like my nervous system is activated, I will like catastrophize the future to like the nth degree. And then my sky starts falling in the present. And I have to like work myself up out of that. And I've dragged people into that before. I'm sure you have experienced this, but I hate that about myself, how it's like, I am not able to like stay in the present. And even though I am very like go with the flow, sometimes I find myself wanting to direct that flow. In a negative forecast, if that makes sense. And like, I had to talk myself back down off the ledge. You're fucking up today by worrying about tomorrow. And you don't even know. And I tell myself and how I do this. I'm like, I could go get in my car right now and die. There is no future, right? Like this is very morbid,

Courtney - 00:35:40:

But it's true, but it's like, stay, stay here, Courtney, like a week from now may not even matter. Cause you could be dead. Like literally get a grip, you know? But I hate that about myself. And I do it in relationships. And I do it in our business. And I do it in my life. I do it with my kids. All the things.

Dana - 00:36:00:

Well, I don't know if I think it's always going to be fine. I just say how I feel.

Courtney - 00:36:04:

I know.

Dana - 00:36:06:

And then let it go. If I can let it go. If I can't, I can't. I've been better about knowing what I can and can't control. Sometimes you just can't control things and you just got to let it be. Yeah. I don't know. I have a couple of things. I do think I'm a very judgmental person. I don't love that about myself. But I would say probably the thing that I hate the most is about myself is, and I work on it all the time. I really hate being wrong. And I feel like it stems a lot from the feeling of wanting to prove myself to whatever situation it is. And, and I hate that feeling because I actually know that I'm wrong a lot of the times and I don't, I'm not afraid to be wrong. Like, I'm not afraid of it. Like, I don't feel like, I learned so much from things that like I'm incorrect about, right? But I don't like it. And I have to fight against my nature is to push back all the time on things. Even if I don't even, even if I don't even know about it, like, even if I'm just like, I don't know about, but if I don't, especially if I don't respect somebody, I want to prove them wrong more than anything else in my life. Like, no question.

Courtney - 00:37:18:

Yeah. I feel like that's one of the things I could have told you about yourself.

Dana - 00:37:22:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:37:23:

Could you have told me that? Like I'm a catastrophizer?

Dana - 00:37:27:

No. I mean, I guess if I was to think about it, I mean, like I know like right now you're stressing about finances and you're probably like spinning this wheel of like, oh my God, we're going to be in this whole of whatever blah blah blah blah. And you know, I can see that it's been stressing you out. I think you keep that pretty internal.

Courtney - 00:37:44:

Yeah. Actually, I do for sure. But I see it played out in my relationships and whatnot too. And I think that's part of the problem like, I'll have a hard time confronting people or like, having our time I've already gone through that all the scenarios and how this is going to end in a tragic flaming pile of shit. You know, so I'm like, I don't even want to start the conversation this is where it's going.

Dana - 00:38:04:

Yeah, but I mean, most of the time you're wrong.

Courtney - 00:38:06:

I know, it's true. Most of the time I'm wrong.

Dana - 00:38:07:

Like we had to have this hard conversation and you were like, oh, she's just going to quit. And I was like, I don't think she is actually. You're like, nope, she is. Give me this, give me that. And I'm like, no. That might've been wishful thinking. That's different. No, I don't know how it's going to work.

Courtney - 00:38:21:

All right. Well, that was so good. I love that conversation. Totally could talk to Don again.

Dana - 00:38:24:

Yeah. They're very easy to talk to.

Courtney - 00:38:37:

To learn more about our hustles, visit us on the gram @C&DEvents, @theBradfordandC, @anthem.house, and @hustleandgather. And if you're interested in learning more about our speaking, training, or venue consulting, head to our website at hustleandgather.com.

Dana - 00:38:50:

And if you love us and you love this show, we'd be more than honored if you left a rating and a review.

Courtney - 00:38:55:

This podcast is a production of Earfluence. I'm Courtney.

Dana - 00:38:57:

And I'm Dana.

Courtney - 00:38:58:

And we'll talk to you next time on Hustle & Gather.