Dana - 00:00:00:

She should be the one that's like, oh my God, this is so hard. It's so hard raising kids by myself. It's so hard taking care of myself. It's so hard being in a new relationship. It's so hard owning three businesses. It's so hard opening a new venue. And she's like, no, dude, this is amazing. And it's just so refreshing and enlightening to say, why do we need to complain about everything? Welcome to Hustle & Gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I'm Dana.

Courtney - 00:00:36:

And I'm Courtney.

Dana - 00:00:36:

And we are two sisters who have started multiple businesses together. And yes, it is as messy as you think, because we know that starting a business isn't easy.

Courtney - 00:00:44:

We've done it four times. And on this show, we talk about the ups and downs of the hustle and the reward at the end of the journey.

Dana - 00:00:49:

And we love talking with our guests about important topics in our entrepreneurial journey. We've talked about team building and work-life balance so far.

Courtney - 00:00:56:

And now we get to talk to some incredible guests on how they recovered after tragedy. You know, those seasons when you simply can't separate life from business. We'll be talking about how to handle those unexpected moments and how to grow and move forward through those experiences. Last week, we talked with Jill Donovan all about her journey in business and how to pick yourself, your family, and your business back up after tragedy.

Dana - 00:01:15:

So this week, the two of us are talking about the lessons that we learned from Jill.

Courtney - 00:01:19:

I love Jill. I always have loved Jill.

Dana - 00:01:20:

I know.

Courtney - 00:01:20:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:01:21:

Well, Jill always, Jill intimidated me for a very long time.

Courtney - 00:01:24:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:01:25:

Yeah. But then like once you get to know her, you realize like, yeah, I mean, she's gorgeous and amazing and she's a badass, but she's also like so tenderhearted and sweet.

Courtney - 00:01:35:

She's a very kind human.

Dana - 00:01:36:

Yes. Very kind human. And so I don't know. I just get to know who she is. But you guys are closer than I am.

Courtney - 00:01:44:

Yeah. I've had some personal hangs with Jill.

Dana - 00:01:46:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:01:47:

I've thrown up in Jill's house being hungover.

Dana - 00:01:48:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:01:49:

So, you know, we're close.

Dana - 00:01:50:

Yeah. On that level.

Courtney - 00:01:51:

Yeah. On that level.

Dana - 00:01:53:

Yeah. It was great. I got super choked up when we started talking about TJ and I don't know why I like it. I think it's to me, I can, I so distinctly remember that moment. One is because it was during, it was one of the worst clients of my life that got married at Cypress Manor.

Courtney - 00:02:11:

Oh, yes.

Dana - 00:02:12:

And it happened. That morning.

Courtney - 00:02:15:

That was a terrible client.

Dana - 00:02:16:

Yeah. And I remember I had to go to a meeting with that client. And I just remember looking at her being like, you're awful. Like you're an awful human. And like, just, I don't know. It just hit me so hard. And then it was just this. Like realization that she just had, you know. Cameron and I don't know, it just felt. And it was tragic, but it just felt so like unnecessary.

Courtney - 00:02:42:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:02:43:

You know?

Courtney - 00:02:44:

It was shocking.

Courtney - 00:02:43:

I remember it being like super shocking. Yeah. And I remember like. Who was it? Like eight or nine years ago. So like Liam was still really little. Yeah. And I just remember thinking, wow, that just seemed like a lot. Yeah. Yeah, just a lot.

Dana - 00:02:58:

But I was getting like a little choked up when I said it. I was trying to, I'm glad you jumped in because I was like, I'm going to start crying.

Courtney - 00:03:02:

She's so, she talks about it so openly. So like if you ever hang out with her, I mean, it's, she talks about TJ and kind of that time often. Like it's very much. She's always been very open about it, which I think makes it helpful. It's not ever weird to talk to her about it.

Dana - 00:03:19:

Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:03:20:

She doesn't ever seem like. Overly sad about it. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Dana - 00:03:26:

Well, I loved her outlook on it in general. Like just that she said, trying to find that silver lining in a lot of ways. And that she just, I don't know when she speaks about it, I guess what I thought was so profound is how she was saying his universe was short, but like he had accomplished what it needed to accomplish almost. Like all these things were set in place for her to be successful. And so it was just speeding up its timeline, even though she felt like, whoa, wasn't ready for that third baby. Whoa, wasn't ready for this business, other business that you wanted. But looking back, he was just getting all those things in place, you know, because he wasn't going to be there. Yeah. Which is kind of powerful.

Courtney - 00:04:05:

I know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had no idea that that takeout market started four days before his death because I thought it was a concept that she came up with later. Oh, yeah. Like the pivot for Donovan.

Dana - 00:04:19:

Right. I think I thought that. I mean, I've known because I've known that part of the story before. But I agree because she was the face of it. She was the only face of it.

Courtney - 00:04:28:

Yeah, I know. So, yeah.

Dana - 00:04:31:

Yeah. So what was your favorite overall takeaway?

Courtney - 00:04:33:

My favorite overall takeaway, and I kind of live by this in general, is to give yourself a lot of grace. Like when she said she was going through it or going through a tragedy or a big life change. I mean, it doesn't have to be death. I mean, it could be like a diagnosis or it could be a big life change, divorce or whatever, is to give yourself a lot of grace. And I think— I think especially as women and moms that we tend to be really hard on ourselves and kind of demand this level of like perfection. That's just. Doesn't acknowledge life circumstances, you know? And I think that, you know. Giving yourself the grace you would extend to a kid or to somebody else going through that, I think, is super powerful. Yeah. And great advice.

Dana - 00:05:17:

I agree. Yeah. I had this, I've been working with a business coach to work through some like speaking stuff or whatnot. And so the first part of it is a lot of like. Getting past like your hangups, um, just so you could sell yourself better. So there's all these exercises you do. And one of them was just free, right? About who I am, like just free, right. Like a stream of consciousness, like, you know, so it was like two pages of it, whatever. And they read a portion back that really stuck out to them and he was reading it. And I literally just, well, I just started crying because it was so this feeling of what I, my expectation for myself is perfection all the time and every sense of the word and every moment, every hard thing, whatnot. And how as a kid, I wrote about when I was a kid, that was not my expectation of myself. Like I just kind of gave two fucks about it. Like I was like, this is what I want to do. This is how I want to be. I don't care if that hurts your feelings. I'm moving on over here. Like I just lived this very, like, carefree life. And what happened to the point where I felt like I couldn't give myself grace in anything, you know, and I had to be this like perfect thing all the time. It was like really intense.

Courtney - 00:06:40:

No, I feel that. I went to a yoga course one summer. I was there for a few days or whatnot. And one of the activities is we had to write our obituary.

Dana - 00:06:48:

That's really morbid.

Courtney - 00:06:49:

Yeah, it was kind of morbid, but also it was a free writing activity, kind of thinking through these different aspects of it, like something positive personally, something about your business, all these things. And it was really interesting, kind of like what came to mind about yourself when you had to write about it from the perspective of no longer being here, people talking about you when you're not here. Yeah. It was weird. Yeah. Yeah, but really Eye-opening. Yeah.

Dana - 00:07:17:

But I just love that you said that about like giving yourself grace. Cause I think it's, as we get older, it's like, we forget it. We forget to do that all the time.

Courtney - 00:07:25:

Yeah. Cause we're still humans and like learning and evolving and all of those things like that never change. Right. You know? So you're. You think about all that grace you give like a two-year-old and a three-year-old or your 10-year-old or a 12-year-old as they're like learning life. You're still doing the same thing. What was your favorite?

Dana - 00:07:44:

I think the moment I just felt so powerful was when she was talking about her friend who is a widow. And she's like one year in. She had hired the medium. And so she was talking. She was able to talk to her late husband. And Jill said, I don't even think TJ would recognize me. And it wasn't sadness that was being said. It was more of the evolution of who she is and what she's become is just so different than that person that was eight, nine years ago. And I thought that was just super powerful. Yeah. And it really shows that when you go through hard things, when you do something you thought you could never do or never survive, how that really changes you. In a good way.

Courtney - 00:08:34:

Yeah. No, I, actually that really like resonates with me because I feel very, very similarly. I know we started the season kind of like talking about where I was for the last year or whatnot. And. People ask me, like, oh, do you regret, like, the marriage? Do you regret whatever? And I definitely think, like, I stayed in it longer than I should have. But then at the same time, like, getting back to the grace, like, I left when I could. You know, like, when I was ready. But I think. Back on like who that person was. That like got married. And I think back on who I am today. And like, I can't regret it because I know that it's like that journey that like made me who I am. And like in a lot of ways, I like who I am. Right. You know, like I like. My tenacity. I like my outlook on life. I like all of those things. I like what I've shown my kids in a lot of ways, you know, and I wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for like some really hard times in the middle of it. For sure. So I think, I think when you do go through hard times like that, I think you can't necessarily reflect on who you were or regret. The journey that got you to where you are right now. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. So what was your personal takeaway? Your favorite.

Dana - 00:09:43:

Yeah. And I don't think this is like a shock or anything or this aha moment, but I definitely feel like it's something that's so worth reiterating and something I've tried to remind myself during hard times is that community matters. And she said she had this amazing community kind of rally behind her. And I remember making her a meal. And it was for 10 people. I'm thinking like, oh my God. And I think we actually didn't make stuffed shells. I think I made it a butternut squash lasagna so it could serve 10 people. But it was like the same kind of concept. And we had salad and we had drinks, whatever, and food. And I think we had wine. But you were just supposed to go and drop it off on the doorstep. Yeah. Because that was the other thing that was super overwhelming was probably receiving people. People wanted to talk about it. And I had a friend of mine, like a loose acquaintance who lost her husband. I bought him dinner and she also had three kids. She had a baby as well, oddly, similarities there. And I had gotten all the kids like busy toys, like a puzzle or something because I'm just something they could do that was new and that could give her some time to just space out or whatever. And I did not expect to see her. I was just going to leave it on the doorstep. And she was there. And we ended up, I was talking with her. And I got super upset about it. And she's the one consoling me. And I was like, this does not make any sense. But I think that it's so hard for people to like. Imagine it and not put themselves in that situation. And so as a community, asking for your community to rally behind you and support you in it, like I think it takes a lot to ask for it. And I don't, it sounds like people just showed up, right? Cause I think you don't even know what to do or what to say or how to ask for help or whatever. But I also think it's, for some people, that community almost makes it harder. You know what I mean? Like in your mind, like it's just going to be harder to have people around. It's going to be harder to have people at home. Like I'd rather just do X, Y, Z or whatever. Like, oh, I can do this. I'm fine. I can do it on my own. And that's definitely the story I tell myself all the time. Like I don't need people. It's fine. Fine, fine, whatever. But really how much community really does matter. Yeah. Like so much.

Courtney - 00:11:52:

I mean, I think it's there for the good times and for the bad times. Yeah. It's there to celebrate and to help more. You know, I think. I sometimes think that's where America gets it wrong. We have this like we value autonomy so much. And I just don't think as people we're supposed to be autonomous. I don't think we're created that way.

Dana - 00:12:10:

I agree.

Courtney - 00:12:12:

We thrive in community.

Dana - 00:12:14:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:12:14:

But I tend to be the same way. If I'm having a really hard time, I tend to be very hermit-like. I will reach out to nobody. Yeah. Not talk to anybody. My friend Crystal sometimes will be like, I haven't heard from you. Is everything fine? Reaching out.

Dana - 00:12:28:

But I think that's why a true community, you actually don't have to ask. Yeah. A true community just shows up. And so she said like her cousin was just, go out there and she's like, oh, my cousin Jen's there. What are you doing there? Like, do you need something? Like, nope, I'm just here if you need me. Like, and that kind of community is like what you need. Like people that know what you need, maybe it's just a body. Yeah. And it's not like, it's kind of been like the hot topic of like women and their mental plate and how a husband's like, or a partner's like, hey, just tell me what you need. And you're like, no, you're not taking anything on my mental plate. It's still my job to do that.

Courtney - 00:13:02:

To delegate it, right.

Dana - 00:13:03:

To delegate it. And when you have a community, it's a community that is there and that loves you and supports you. And it's like genuinely there to like being there for you. They're not asking you to carry that mental load of like, how can I help you? Right. It's like just doing it, just doing it. Either that's just being there or that's making the meal train or that's doing whatever, you know.

Courtney - 00:13:25:

Yeah, for sure.

Dana - 00:13:26:

Yeah. What was your favorite personal?

Courtney - 00:13:28:

Well, I always love, like talking about kids and kind of her even saying that she feels like that's where she's like her weakest link.

Dana - 00:13:36:

So crazy.

Courtney - 00:13:37:

It's just crazy to me. And I'm like, wow, our kids are doing just fine. But It's kind of how she's navigated her girls through that. Like, we went through something sad, but that doesn't mean our life is sad. You know? Like, I loved that saying. And just kind of thinking through, like, the kids are alright. I totally admire, like, what she's putting out there for her girls. Like, she takes care of herself well. Like, she prioritizes what she's passionate about. And those girls are always bebopping all over the place. I mean, just, like, just right in the middle of, like, what she's doing. And I feel like on some level, we did that well, but on a lot of them, we kept it separate.

Dana - 00:14:10:

We did keep it very separate.

Courtney - 00:14:11:

Yeah, very separate. Like, we just didn't necessarily, like, well, I mean, sometimes unavoidable. You know, I mean, I remember, like, planting trees and, like, Liam was there as a baby on, like, a little.

Dana - 00:14:19:

Yeah, for sure. But, like, I feel like now we do it really well. Yeah. Like, definitely we have that where the kids are around. We're not afraid to bring them and whatnot.

Courtney - 00:14:26:

Yeah, but we were so nervous at the beginning of our business to be like. We're moms and business owners. That our mom-ness is going to prevent us from giving you the best business experience instead of just embracing that's who we are.

Dana - 00:14:40:

Because that's a, But you think back to that time, that's what we were told.

Courtney - 00:14:44:

I know. But it's wrong.

Dana - 00:14:44:

Right. And every sense of how society expected mothers to be was supposed to be separate.

Courtney - 00:14:54:

I know.

Dana - 00:14:54:

And you could not be a good ex if you're a good mother at the same time. It just definitely was this impossible standard. But no, it's funny. I had that exact same, I had immense guilt. And I still struggled a lot with it even after we built the Bradford. I mean, even to like I think it was actually, it was the podcast with Megan Ely. I was telling the story about Henry and how I regretted that time because I don't remember Henry being a baby. And I got emotional about it. And she was like, you know, held space for that. But at the same time, she was like. Maybe you think about it differently. Like think about that time in a different way. And she's like, it was hard no matter what was happening. It was an infant, it was a baby. Like maybe you wouldn't have remembered it because of the fact that you had a two-year-old and a newborn, right? All these things. And it was like one of those things that like you had to forgive yourself. And she's basically like, you need to forgive yourself. Like you need to like and start thinking about that time, not in this super negative way, essentially. And that was when I went home and I like printed out like 35 pictures of the kids during that time of where I felt that awful guilt. And you look back at it and they're so happy.

Courtney - 00:16:14:

They're so happy. I know.

Dana - 00:16:16:

They were so happy in the mud and the dirt and the tiny house and all of the things. Like they were so happy. And there's so many like, as I framed it and put it in my office with the sign that says the kids are alright. Because it's like this reminder of. They're fine. But we feel like we're effing them up for some reason because I travel too much or I feel like I'm, you know, fuck them up because like I wasn't there when they lost their first tooth or what all of these things that you tell yourself and the reality is, is it's just, no, the kids are fine.

Courtney - 00:16:54:

They are fine. Like I, I think that's the thing too, is like, yes, they're kids, but we're actually raising humans. Like there's a difference between being a parent and raising a future human. And you think, do you want your future human to have the same strange, unrealistic expectations that like everything's siloed and they need to feel guilty? Like I don't want to pass any of that on. To my kids. And I really think, honestly, like, It took like a pandemic for everyone to realize, oh, wait, like sometimes life and business and work can't be separated. And you know what? It's just fine. Like I feel like there was a lot of understanding of kind of like that mom business. Or like work-life balance BS that was dispelled when like, oh. Dads can't do it either. You know what I'm saying? Like during the pandemic, I feel like it kind of normalized the fact that, oh, yes, we all do have lives outside of the jobs that we do. And sometimes it intertwines and it's going to be fine. Yeah. I feel like there's only one thing good that came out of the pandemic. It was like normalizing that people are real humans.

Dana - 00:17:55:

Right. And it's really crazy when you start seeing what you hate about yourself and your children. So like I hate some of my people pleasing this, like where I just don't put up a fight about something. I'm like, you know, it's just easier just not to deal with it or whatever. And I started seeing some of that in Ada. And I was like, no, like we're not doing that. Like you are not going to live your life like this because it's hard and it sucks. And so there's this such an interesting thing that that is what actually makes you change. It's like I. I don't. I don't want to be this role model for you in this way because I want you to know that it's actually not OK to be treated this way. And it's actually not OK for you to just go along with it at the sacrifice of yourself just to make someone else feel better. Yeah. Like that's not OK. Yeah. You know, makes you feel like shit. It makes that person feel great. That's just a relationship you don't need to have.

Courtney - 00:18:51:

Yeah, 100%. For me, even getting back to divorce, that was one of the biggest things. Would I be okay with Nora being in this situation?

Dana - 00:19:01:
Absolutely not.

Courtney - 00:19:02:

The answer was no. Why am I okay with me being in it? Right. What am I showing Nora?

Dana - 00:19:06:

Yeah, for sure.

Courtney - 00:19:07:

Yeah, I'm just going to be. You know, dooming her to this same destiny. Right. You know? Right. Like, and it was a big deal to me. Yeah. I do think there is so much of that that's true. Like, you look at the kids and when you do start seeing those things or start seeing it through, like, what are they watching? It kind of makes you take a pause and think, okay, am I showing them something good or am I showing them a bad habit?

Dana - 00:19:31:

Right. What was your favorite business piece that she said?

Courtney - 00:19:39:

I love, and she is always like this. Like I love how she just keeps it positive because I think it's so easy because it is hard. It's to be negative about your business, to be negative about the amount of work, to be negative about the hours, to be negative about a client like it's easy to fall into that and Burnout's real. I get all of that. It's definitely very seasonally hard, the events industry in general. But I do love how she keeps it positive. Because I think that that translates into your employees. It translates into their client experience. It just then overall translates into your business and how productive it is. So I think just kind of keeping that positive attitude and loving what we get to do instead of doing what we have to do. Yeah. And I think that, too. I mean, whenever I'm sharing my business or talking about my business with someone else. So like, wow, that just sounds like a lot of fun. And for a while I was like, no, I mean, it's so much work, you know, like it's like a lot of work. It's very uphill, blah, blah, blah. But now I'm like, it is fun. You're right. Like I go to a lot of parties. There's a lot of great things that I'm exposed to. Like I basically throw parties for a living.

Dana - 00:20:49:

Is it, do you think, like I think about this often because it is the thing I have, the one thing I have tried to change in the past two years about myself is to get rid of that martyr. Just stop being the martyr. Yeah. And I think for me, again, as I'm unearthing all of these, you know, things I feel about myself, it really came from the fact that I needed to feel like I deserved it. Like I needed to feel like I deserved this great, this success, or I deserved this, or I earned it or this payout or whatever. And so to me, when you say, okay, oh, wow, you're so successful. And oh, that looks like so much fun. In my mind, it was always like, oh, well, they must think it's super easy. And therefore, like, I'm just lucky, right? And I don't think people ever really mean that. And, but who actually, who the fuck cares if they think that? Like, I don't care. At this point, I don't care, right? But it was like this, I felt, and I think that's where it comes from. It's like, you have to like prove yourself. Like, no, no, like this, like I busted my ass to create this success. I worked 25 hours yesterday, right? Like I invented an hour in the day to get all this work done. Like we stayed up all night. Like we did, we planted, we planted all the trees. We did blah, blah, blah, blah, like all of these things. And it used to be people like, oh, I want to own a venue. You're like, oh, my God, it's a lot of work. It's really going to suck, blah, blah, blah, like all this stuff. But now it's like, no, that's cool. It's a great retirement opportunity. Certainly there's some hard parts to it, and you're going to go on a roller coaster, but it's a great roller coaster ride. Like I wouldn't trade it, you know? And it's like. And I think being around people like Jill and recognizing out of anybody, she should be the one that's like, oh, my God, this is so hard. It's so hard raising kids by myself. It's so hard taking care of myself. It's so hard being in a new relationship. It's so hard owning three businesses. It's so hard opening a new venue. And she's like, no, dude, this is amazing. And it's just so refreshing and enlightening to say, why do we need to complain about everything? Like, what is it?

Courtney - 00:23:03:

I feel very strongly about that. I tell people that all the time. Like, you know, past courting did me a solid. Like, really, honestly. Like, in lots of the decisions that she made, like, she set me up for success. And I'm thankful for that. And it was hard. Sure. And it was stressful. It's probably more hard and more stressful than it had to be. And part of that probably was attitude in general. But I do think that like it's like a life that we get to live and a team that we get to lead and people that we get to serve.

Dana - 00:23:27:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:23:27:

And I think kind of like staying in that positive mindset.

Dana - 00:23:30:

But don't you feel like even in like I can think of pockets of time like when it felt like there was no hope and it was super, super hard for sure. But there were times when we were cruising alright and you would still be like, oh, my God, it's so hard. Like or you had to like you would meet somebody like, oh, we're just so busy. And they had this thing and this thing's going on and there's like all this and blah, blah, blah. Like there was just like this need to make it look overly difficult when it actually wasn't at that moment. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Courtney - 00:24:01:

Yeah, I do think it's just a mindset shift, honestly.

Dana - 00:24:04:

Yeah, so like what I've started doing, which I don't know is right or wrong, but when someone says something, I'm like, oh, that really sucks. I'm sorry you're going through that. We're doing great. Like we're busy, but like, oh my gosh, like we're so lucky. Like we've done, we have, we have just, the team's worked really hard this year and we've had some great successes and we're like loving it right now. Like, and not like in like to be an asshole kind of way, but just like, dude, come on. Like, I know you're doing fine. Yeah. Like, I know you're doing fine. Yeah. Like you're not. Destitute over here. Yeah. Come on. No, but if it's a real friend who's like, oh my gosh, I'm obviously like.

Courtney - 00:24:44:

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely moments. I mean, like, you've got to, like, be a boss. Sometimes you've got to manage. Sometimes you've got to step in. Sometimes it doesn't go super smooth. You've got to make decisions, you know? Like, there's definitely those moments.

Dana - 00:24:53:

Sometimes you have very big things you have to pay for that you didn't see coming.

Courtney - 00:24:57:

Yeah, that sucks. Yeah. So, I mean, there's definitely all of that. But, like, that's just all part of it. Yeah. Like, literally, that's all part of the good. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. So what was your favorite biz takeaway?

Dana - 00:25:07:

Delegate. Yeah. Delegate, delegate, delegate. I think it's really powerful to especially somebody who recognizes that she was behind the scenes and became this leader. And I think a lot of people in that position, they would have a hard time letting that back go, like letting it go. Like saying, okay, I've learned this. I've learned this. I've learned how to lead this group. And now I'm going to trust this baby that I've basically, that she built and delegated to other people, I think is like such a great lesson. Because I think it's the only way to stay that positive.

Courtney - 00:25:41:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:25:41:

And I actually think it's the only way to actually grow your business. Oh, sure. Because when you are the only person making the decisions, you're the only person running it, like it just never is going to, it just never runs smoothly. Yeah. Because there's too much on your plate. Like you can't, you can't do anything with real fidelity. You know what I mean?

Courtney - 00:25:56:

Yeah, I think there's that. And then also it's like tunnel vision. Like you can't ever see your blind spot. Right. You're like, because you're blind to it. Yes. And someone else may not be. Right. You know, so I think there's a lot of like creativity that happens on those teams and like best ways, like kind of best methods or best ways forward out of problems and whatnot. So.

Dana - 00:26:13:

And I've gotten a lot better about that. Like where there's things the team will talk about, the team will talk about something like, oh, I can do that. And I was like, nope, actually I'm not. That's, Molly, you handle that. Like there's no reason. Yeah. There's no reason for me to do it. Like it's not like. I can't do it better than you. And there's like part of it was like, oh, I just I don't want to overload them. But I'm like, you're fine. Yeah. Everyone's fine. Yeah. Like. You know what I mean?

Courtney - 00:26:35:

And honestly, it's going to get done better and faster because it's not one of the 30,000 things on your mental list.

Dana - 00:26:41:

Exactly. So delegating I think is key, and especially in hard times and in moments when you're struggling. Delegate and let go. Recognize the world is not going to end. And even just hearing her talk about how her regret was not getting to the back of the kitchen sooner and maybe that was just a mental block because it was where TJ was. And she says the quality went down and it struggled, but she had a community that still supported her, still believed in her and said, you know what, we're going to give you grace. We're going to give you grace right now because we understand what just happened. We know this isn't what your standard is. We're going to give you some feedback and whatever. And how that didn't break her. And so I think when you're going through hard times and you have to delegate something and maybe it's done at that 80% or 70% of what it is, it's okay, you're still going to bounce back from it because you have to get whole again and back on your feet. Yeah. So delegate it.

Courtney - 00:27:34:

I thought it was great advice. Yeah. All right. What do you feel like your F up is?

Dana - 00:27:41:

I think I've kind of already spoken about it a little bit, but in relation to like some of the takeaways, like community matters and like what you said, like giving yourself grace or whatnot, like that's definitely been my biggest fuck up is like, whenever I go through something that's hard, one, I minimize it in my head because I say these things like, I didn't lose a husband or I didn't lose a child or I didn't do this. Like you're, I, the world has it so much worse than me. Like I should be, I should be fine. I should be able to suck it up and deal with it. And so I don't ever give myself grace. Let me feel the way I feel or to mourn when I need to mourn or whatever, you know, is happening in that moment. That's making my life hard. Yeah. And then I shut out my community because I feel petty.

Courtney - 00:28:28:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:28:29:

I don't know. I have a hard time with that. I have a hard time for anyone feeling sorry for me because I don't feel like. I feel like I have a great life. So suck it up, buttercup. Let's go. You know? So I don't ever, so I still probably is the biggest fuck up in general. I just don't let myself go through the process. I need to process grief or hard things or whatever.

Courtney - 00:28:53:

I had that, someone said that to me. It was actually someone I was dating here recently that said, because I was like kind of minimizing something that I was going through, and they said, Just because someone has it harder doesn't mean it's not hard for you. Thank you. You know what I mean? Like it. Which is true because you only have your lived experience, right? You're living your life. And so what, even though. That might look like a breeze to somebody else, it doesn't mean it's not hard for you because that's not your loved experience.

Dana - 00:29:22:

Have you ever heard that? I can't remember. I think it's the Olivia Rodrigo song. I think it's All American Bitch. And there's a line at the end, and she's singing over and over again. And she's like, I'm grateful all the time, and I'm pretty when I cry. And she's talking about basically, the whole song is about expectations on girls and women and how everyone, and people do say that, like, oh, you should be so grateful that you got to stay home with your kids. Oh, you should be so grateful that you have this. Oh, I hear this all the time. You should be so grateful that Sam's such a good partner. And I'm like, I am grateful, but I don't expect anything. You should expect nothing less than having a great partner. You know what I mean? And every time I hear that song, it just hits me. And so that's when I want to push back and say, allow myself to be upset about something because you're just told your whole life, just be grateful. Just be grateful that this didn't happen. Just be grateful that. Excellent. Like that concept of just because someone has it harder doesn't mean it's hard for you was never taught to us.

Courtney - 00:30:20:

I know. Ever. Because it does feel like it comes across as like you are being ungrateful. Yeah. But it's not that at all.

Dana - 00:30:27:

No, not at all. Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:30:29:

I agree with that.

Dana - 00:30:30:

Yeah. What about yours?

Courtney - 00:30:32:

I think it's all the celebrating probably. And I think we've done a bad job of this, like better lately. But I felt like we did not celebrate the wins. No, at all. Like at all. And I feel like she's done a great job about like. Living life and like celebrating and making sure that all those moments are like captured and, you know, Because it's hard. Like, life is hard. And I feel like, for us, we would do these big, hard things and be like, All right, now it's Tuesday. On to the next thing. I know. You know what I mean? I remember one of the times we first opened the Bradford. And we had gotten through some big humps. And it was finally, like, okay for a minute. Like, I felt like we could exhale. I don't exactly remember. Like, I'm sure there was lots of inhales coming down the pipeline. But I remember you coming in, and, like, you were, like, in this huffy mood. And I was like, what? And, like, we have just gotten through, like, the craziest couple of weeks. Like, we're on smooth sailing. And I was like, what is wrong? And she was like, you said social media. I was like, what?

Dana - 00:31:28:

I do not remember this at all.

Courtney - 00:31:31:

And you're like, we are not doing well on social media. And I was like,

Dana - 00:31:35:

What are you talking about? She's like.

Courtney - 00:31:37:

We're not doing well on social media, and we're not going to be able to keep up. And it was probably true. It was like right at the invent of like Instagram and whatnot, like at the very beginning of it. But I was like, we have just gone through like the most terrible couple of weeks, and we are finally on cruise, and you're coming and talking to me about social media? Like, can we not just at least exhale? We don't have to celebrate it, but can we just take a deep breath here? But I feel like oftentimes we minimize that. We're like, oh, and I think it is like. The fear of...Coming across as arrogant or... Like self-serving or whatnot. You know what I'm saying? Whereas, I have done some really hard shit and it should be celebrated. But it's always been like that kind of like, oh no, like we're just normal everyday people doing normal everyday things.

Dana - 00:32:27:

I definitely do think that. I definitely, and I, and I do struggle with that a lot. Like it's that feeling of why am I special? I'm not special. Like I didn't do anything special. And like it is that, that, and I think too, for me, and I remember those feelings, I remember, okay, we got through this and then, and then it would be the next thing. It's like, I could never relax. I, I, cause I never felt like we could take a break. Like we never could, could relax because I was afraid of what was to come. Like, you know what I mean? Like there was this major, like we weren't going to keep up or something, something like exactly what you said, like we weren't seeing something on our blind side. Do you know what I mean?

Courtney - 00:33:07:

Yeah, it reminded me of this word, sonder. And sometimes I think very existentially. It baffles my mind. That everybody kind of has their own bubble that they're living in, and everybody has the same sense of self-importance or the same sense of purpose. Like, I just can't wrap my mind around it, like, in general. And I listened to this artist, Dermot Kennedy. I think he's from Ireland or whatever. Maybe you'll see him when you're there. But anyway, his album, I think his latest album is called Sonder. And I looked up what the word meant, and it was the profound feeling of realizing that everyone, including strangers passing in the street, has a life as complex as one's own, which they are constantly living despite one's personal lack of awareness in it. And it made me think of that. Like, yes, we're doing big things, and we're hard at work at it, and these things should be celebrated. But also, it's not arrogant. Everyone else is doing their own great things and working hard at it and in their own bubble. But it's weird to think that everyone's kind of doing these things simultaneously at the same time, and it's not necessarily arrogance to be doing these things. But it's also to celebrate what you've accomplished. Just like these people should be celebrating what they've accomplished. But yeah, I thought it was a really interesting word, kind of describing that thought of, like, who am I? I'm no one special, but yet everybody's special. Right. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. To learn more about our hustles, visit us on the gram at C&D Events, at the Bradford and C, at Anthem.house, and at Hustle & Gather. And if you're interested in learning more about our speaking, training, or venue consulting, head to our website at hustleandgather.com.

Dana - 00:34:46:

And if you love us and you love this show, we'd be more than honored if you left a rating and a review.

Courtney - 00:34:51:

This podcast is a production of Your Fluence. I'm Courtney.

Dana - 00:34:54:

And I'm Dana.

Courtney - 00:34:55:

And we'll talk with you next time on Hustle & Gather.