Courtney - 00:00:00:

It's really a very special life. I really believe that. And to be able to be surrounded by celebrations constantly, it doesn't mean that there's not hard times, but it's just a different, I really do. I think it forms just a different outlook on life. Like you see the good, you see the happy, you see dancing and music and flowers and all the pretty. It's really an amazing thing to be exposed to, I feel like for all of our children.

Dana - 00:00:30:

Welcome to Hustle & Gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I'm Dana.

Courtney.- 00:00:36:

And I'm Courtney.

Dana - 00:00:37:

And we are two sisters who have started multiple businesses together. And yes, it is as messy as you think, because we know that starting a business isn't easy.

Courtney - 00:00:44:

We've done it four times. And on this show, we talk about the ups and downs of the hustle and the reward at the end of the journey.

Dana - 00:00:49:

And we love talking with our guests about important topics in our entrepreneurial journey. We've talked about team building and work-life balance so far.

Courtney - 00:00:56:

And now we get to talk to some incredible guests on how they recovered after tragedy. You know, those seasons when you simply can't separate life from business. We'll be talking about how to handle those unexpected moments and how to grow and move forward through those experiences.

Dana - 00:01:08:

And today we're speaking with Jill Donovan. Over 20 years ago, Jill started her entrepreneurship journey by founding Jill's Beach, the Triangle's premier tanning destination. Now with multiple locations. The next step after meeting her husband, TJ, was Donovan's Dish. Together, they took the catering world by storm and built a brand synonymous with quality, integrity, and most of all, passion. Jill is now on to her latest endeavor, Donovan Manor, an all-inclusive wedding and special event venue. At present, Jill is happily vested in family, friends, the community, and continuing to grow her companies. Jill, welcome to the show.

Jill - 00:01:38:

Thank you. Yeah, welcome. Thank you for having me.

Courtney - 00:01:41:

Yeah. We're excited to have you.

Dana - 00:01:43:

I know. It's so fun. We actually, you had the groundbreaking of Donovan Manor last night.

Courtney - 00:01:48:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you for coming. Yeah. It's a lovely event.

Dana - 00:01:52:

I know. It was so nice. Everyone got a little shovel and we all got to dig a little hole.

Jill - 00:01:55:

Yeah. I loved that.

Dana - 00:01:56:

It was not easy to dig a little hole.

Jill - 00:01:57:

It wasn't easy.

Courtney - 00:01:58:

You should have seen me with the big shovel. I know.

Jill - 00:02:00:

Yeah. Your girls were committed to it though. Like, I mean, they were going to get some dirt. Yeah. It looked like kangaroos up there, like hopping on those shovels.

Courtney - 00:02:09:

It was dirt on a lot of the little shovels. So I think people were able to get in.

Dana - 00:02:13:

Oh, yeah. We did. It took a little bit. I made sure I got a little hole in there.

Jill - 00:02:15:

I moved some dirt. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:02:17:

Thanks. For sure.

Jill - 00:02:17:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:02:18:

You saved me a little money on the excavators. Probably not. Probably a penny.

Jill - 00:02:22:

Yeah. None.

Dana - 00:02:24:

None. So.

Courtney - 00:02:27:

Obviously, we know you. So it's like so funny to ask this. But briefly describe your background and like how you first got started in entrepreneurship because you've kind of like always been an entrepreneur. Yeah.

Jill - 00:02:34:

My family's all entrepreneurs. So like for us, I did go to college, but like college wasn't necessarily like something that was common in my house. Like I'm the first Peter Fiore to ever graduate from college. Like it was always you're going to own your own business. You're going to work for yourself. And so it was like the school of hard knocks is like what we learned. Like dinner table conversations were always business. We had dinner like later than everybody else because my dad was always working late. So it was just something that was kind of I was taught to me from the time from when I was little as much as I can remember. And then when I was I couldn't figure out what I wanted to be. So I was like I went to like Wake Tech and then I moved down to Wilmington and then I went to beauty school. I'm a beauty school dropout. I don't know if you guys know that. I did not know that. But I knew when beauty school I wanted to own salons and I wanted to own like a hair school. So I never wanted to like really go do hair. I just felt like I needed to know how to do it to be able to own that business. But then my best friend graduated. She graduated from Meredith and I was watching her and I started crying and I was like am I crying for her or for myself? And so I said this last night like I told my parents I wanted to go to Meredith and my dad's like you might as well just throw the money out the window. And my mom's like we're doing it. And so I went to Meredith and when I was there a sophomore I was like I got to I got to do something because at that point I was 25. And so my parents had sold their business and they were driving each other nuts at home. So I asked my mom if she wanted to do Jill's Beach with me. And so she worked during the day when I was in school. And then I would come after school and close it at night. And I continued to do that. And I opened up the second salon my junior year of college. And then when I graduated my mom she left the company. And so I did that for a long time until I met my late husband TJ. And then we started Donovan's Dish.

Dana - 00:04:16:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:04:16:

The first time I ever met you was out of Jill's Beach in Clayton.

Jill - 00:04:20:

Really?

Courtney - 00:04:20:

You probably don't even remember meeting me.

Jill - 00:04:23:

That place was so beautiful. That was like my beautiful salon. Everybody out there was so angry, though. I was like, I'm slinging sunshine and people are so rude out there. It was like angry people.

Courtney - 00:04:31:

Is it still there? No. No.

Jill - 00:04:33:

I sold it actually to a national competitor. They bought it to shut me down. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. We were like choking each other. We were so close. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:04:40:

I do feel like there were angrier people out there who did not love living out there. A lot of unhappiness.

Jill - 00:04:46:

I think it's changed. Oh, has it? I think the climate's changed out there. I have several employees who live out there now. I haven't been back. Yeah. No. I try not to visit either.

Dana - 00:04:55:

I mean, you know, it's like 15 minutes away, 20 minutes.

Jill - 00:04:58:

I feel like you guys get me in trouble on these things. Yeah. Like I say things I'm not supposed to say about mom's groups online. Oh, yeah. I'm saying about like an area of town.

Courtney - 00:05:06:

No worries. No worries. Yeah, I remember meeting you there. Yeah. With TJ. TJ was there too. Oh, really? Yeah. I remember you guys like walking out from that tanning salon. Oh. Like Nara had just been born. So it had to have been like- 13 years ago. Oh, wow.

Jill - 00:05:21:

Yeah. That's so fun. I know.

Courtney - 00:05:24:

So then obviously you said met TJ. And then what led you into that like hospitality catering industry?

Jill - 00:05:31:

So the same best friend that I cried about when she graduated college, she got married at the Wagner in Clayton. And I was standing up there and I was like, this is what I want to do. I want to do a wedding venue. But I don't cook. And I was originally from up north and everything's turnkey up there. So I was like, well, that's never going to work because I can't figure out that piece. This is before I was in this industry and I didn't realize that that's really not how it runs down here. That's right. It's not. It's not. So I just always had that thought that I would have my 20s and 30s would be Jill's Beaches. My 40s would be like a wedding venue. And when I met TJ, he was a chef for a catering company. And so he knew like batch cooking. And I was like, ding, like it just worked. So we were going to buy the company he worked for. But the deal fell through the night before. So the next morning he went in and quit. But I had registered donovansdish.com domain like three years prior. I have so many domains.

Courtney - 00:06:21:

I remember you telling us at one point.

Jill - 00:06:23:

Yeah, I have so many. You have a vodka one, right? Yeah, I do. I had a whole brand for that. That's going to happen. Okay. That'll be after the manor. That's definitely going to happen. Yeah, I do. I register so many domains. So when that deal fell through, we started renting space out of the cookery in Durham, a commissary kitchen by the hour. And then we were cooking out of our house and we just really built it very slowly.

Dana - 00:06:45:

And didn't you guys, weren't you in Cypress Manor?

Jill - 00:06:48:

Yes. Yeah, we moved over to Cypress Manor. Katie Dunn actually got me that space. It's interesting, right? Yeah, because her and TJ used to work together just in events. And that was like used to be Bullwinkles for kids. We had that big kitchen and it was just a big empty space. So we used to lease that kitchen.

Dana - 00:07:05:

Yeah.You guys were like everywhere.

Jill - 00:07:07:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:07:07:

I remember you came on the scene and I was like all of a sudden, I was like, who's this caterer?

Jill - 00:07:13:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:07:13:

Like that's literally everywhere.

Jill - 00:07:15:

Yeah. Yeah. It was good. We had good branding and he was so talented. So I mean, he really like, he like, I feel like he started the whole grazing table before like anybody, right? He was doing grazing tables 12 years ago. Like King's Feast is what we call them.

Dana - 00:07:28:

Yeah, but he was super inventive. I remember his... The shrimp and grits. Yeah. Like his signature dish. Yeah.

Jill - 00:07:37:

That's my retirement on a boat. I'm going to name it shrimp and grits. Are you? Yeah. That's the goal.

Courtney - 00:07:41:

Like your yacht? Your yacht is called shrimp and grits.

Jill - 00:07:43:

I am going to retire on a boat and it's going to be called shrimp and grits. Okay. A hundred percent. All right. Nice. Yes. The girls know it. Everybody knows it. Yes.

Courtney - 00:07:49:

Because that's what got you that boat. Exactly.

Jill - 00:07:50:

Is shrimp and grits. Exactly.

Courtney - 00:07:52:

They are very yummy.

Jill - 00:07:53:

That's what will buy the boat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was super innovative. He really was. He was the first person to ever do, like, mini chicken and waffles. Yes. Yeah. So he was always ahead of it. He was really talented.

Dana - 00:08:03:

Yeah.And in the meantime, you guys were popping out babies. Yeah, you were.

Jill - 00:08:06:

Yeah. Like, one right after the other. You got along really well.

Dana - 00:08:07:

Yeah.

Jill - 00:08:08:

Yeah. Yeah. So that was fun. But that was always, like, the partnership. I did the business end, and then he did the actual, like, labor end of it.

Courtney - 00:08:18:

Did you manage, like, all the employees? Or did he manage his kitchen team?

Jill - 00:08:22:

He managed the kitchen team. I still now have it set up that my executive chef manages the kitchen team. Okay. Yeah. So it's like back of the house, front of the house.

Courtney - 00:08:29:

So at that point, you manage all the servers, though. Yeah.

Jill - 00:08:31:

Okay. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we all used to go to the events, all of us, and go back and do all the food. I'd bring in all my friends, and we would go serve all the food, clamp the food, and we'd come back to the Cypress Manor. We'd all do dish pit. We'd sit outside and drink Chardan. That's how long ago that was. And smoke cigarettes. So that's how long ago that was. But the same team went and put it on, cleaned it up, washed all the dishes, put the dish dishes away. It was a. It wasn't the most efficient method, but that's what we could afford at the time. Right.

Dana - 00:08:59:

That's just what you have to do sometimes, figure out how to get to the point where you can be more efficient and then spend more money to have that efficiency.

Jill - 00:09:06:

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So at this point, kind of moving and shaking, and I remember hearing when TJ passed away how shocking it was. It was literally ... I remember Dana calling me.

Dana - 00:09:22:

It was really upsetting. Like it was just really hard. Like, I mean, and it wasn't even, you know, my husband. Yeah.

Jill - 00:09:29:

Well, I remember you just had a baby. I did. I just had our third baby.

Courtney - 00:09:33:

Like the two months or three months? 11 weeks. 11 weeks. Yeah. So like little, little baby. And like we were both mothers. Like I have a 15-year-old and you have a 13-year-old. So we've been through motherhood. So just kind of like putting ourselves in that experience. Like I can't even imagine like having a new baby in a business. Yeah. And like I remember like sitting on my front steps like at the Blue House and like talking to Dana on the phone about it. Yeah. Like at the Bradford. And I just like, I just couldn't believe it. Like it was just shocking. So tell us a little bit about like. Whatever you want to share about that.

Jill - 00:10:05:

Mm-hmm. Well, I'm happy to share anything. So for me, it's like a surreal, right? A lot of it's foggy. But I mean, I have clear remembering of how I felt and the process of it. But the actual time in my life is foggy from that. I mean, I was postpartum. My husband just passed away. We just bought a new house, signed a five-year lease on a new business that I couldn't cook. I still couldn't cook. So I lost my business partner, my husband, and my chef all at the same time. So for me, I just really just focused on just figuring it out. It was never an option for me not to go to work, right? That also probably goes back to my entrepreneurship, who I am. It was always like, well, I'm just going to have to do this now on my own and figure it out and work through it. Luckily, my parents live close by and have an amazing, amazing support system around me. And so they all really rallied and helped me tremendously. People were at my house every day and just would sit there. I'd come. I'd come out into the living room, and my cousin Jen would be sitting on my couch for a week straight just sitting there. And then I'd be like, do you need anything? And she's like, no, no, I'm here if you need anything. So it was just a tremendous amount of help with me through that. And then, of course, the team that he had in place at Donovan's Dish, those chefs really rallied and stood up. And then the takeout market, TJ had—I know you guys know this, but for your listeners, we have takeout markets. We can come buy chef-prepared meals, and that was always TJ. That was always his dream. That was always his thing. I was like, we don't need a market. We don't need a market. And so he got the market up, and then four days later, he passed away. And I always feel like that was like a silver lining. I always just really focused on the positive things, how his universe was moving so quickly. Cameron is the third baby, and I wasn't trying to get pregnant. And the second was only five months old when I got pregnant again. Oh, my God. Yeah. But I just felt like his universe had a plan. It was very clear. We got into the space that ultimately— Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Donovan's dish up until a year ago. Mm-hmm. And then the takeout markets, which ended up being a saving grace during the pandemic, which changed the whole trajectory of the business. You know? So all of these things were like him still able to like provide for us. And it was five years later that the pandemic hit, but it was still like—like it was so obvious to me that that was his—that was his workings.

Dana - 00:12:22:

Yeah.Wow.

Courtney - 00:12:23:

I remember that time. Like I remember, and the irony, dropping off a meal for you. Yes.

Jill - 00:12:29:

Well, everybody used to. So that's what people wanted to help. And I was like, I don't want anything. And then a girl that worked for me was like, let me do a meal train for you. And so she did it for two months. And it was for 10 people is what it was because there were so many people at my house. And people would drop off food for me. And it was amazing. It really was. It's like the best thing you can do for somebody.

Courtney - 00:12:47:

I was thinking about the irony, though, of dropping off food for a caterer. Right?

Jill - 00:12:50:

Yeah. You're like, here. Hope you like it.

Dana - 00:12:53:

It felt like a lot of pressure. It did feel like a lot of pressure. We debated along and hard. Like, what are we going to make? Like, what are we really good at making? Like, that's not good.

Jill - 00:13:00:

What did you make? It was stuffed shells.

Dana - 00:13:01:

It was butternut squash.

Courtney - 00:13:02:

Butternut squash stuffed shells.

Jill - 00:13:03:

Oh, I remember that, actually. That was delicious. I remember that. Yeah. With like sausage and butternut squash. I do. I remember some of the meals so well because I was like, well, this is delicious. Yeah. And I still never have not eaten, even in grief or sadness or happiness. If I'm hungry, I'm eating. That's right.

Dana - 00:13:18:

I'm the same way. Anyway, everyone's like, when they get depressed, I'm like, no, I just want to eat more, actually. I make poor choices.

Jill - 00:13:23:

I don't have that gene. No.

Dana - 00:13:24:

I do not have that gene at all.

Courtney - 00:13:27:

Well, I guess that segues really nicely into the next question is how did you handle that process of grief and taking care of yourself and children and then multiple businesses at the same time? I don't know. Eating, obviously. Yeah, yeah.

Jill - 00:13:37:

I had a therapist who I love. And in fact, when she cleared me, she's like, what are we doing here? We're just hanging out now. And I was like, I don't know. I'm not ready, you know. So I had a great therapist who I could talk to and really help guide me through that process. And then, like I said, friends and family. And I always just really focused on my grief coming from a place of gratitude. I just really felt very lucky to have had him for the time I had. I felt like not all love affairs last a lifetime. And then I was lucky to have his children. I wasn't always like, yay, this is going to be great. Because I remember like sitting at my kitchen table looking at this big, big backyard we had just bought and thinking like, God, my whole future is gone. Everything I thought about is completely changed. And yeah. It's still difficult with the three girls, like by myself, even though I still have help, but I didn't like have three children to be a single mother, you know, like, and it's, and then all the businesses, you know, but the businesses are the easiest part of my life. Those children are. Are really, really what gets me going. Yeah. That's the most difficult part of the children.

Dana - 00:14:39:

It is, especially like at the age, because you have a seventh grader.

Jill - 00:14:43:

I do. Yeah. Seventh grader, a third grader, and a second grader. Yeah.

Dana - 00:14:46:

So you're like straddled between like the middle school, which I don't, like people always like knock middle school and it's not like, like I love like being a parent of a middle schooler because it's fun to see them become people, but it's just the problems are so much bigger. And like, it's not like, oh, don't touch that. You're going to burn yourself. It's like, oh, I'm giving you like life advice that you're going to like remember forever. And like, you're building like character. Like it's very stressful and overwhelming.

Courtney - 00:15:11:

Yeah. I think every seventh grader should have a therapist. Like it just takes that to get through the seventh grade. Yeah. Especially a girl, every seventh grade girl.

Jill - 00:15:18:

When I met with my seventh grader, Jillian, her teacher for a conference, she was telling me about like how difficult seventh grade is and how like they go through different friend groups. And they're like, and I was like, gosh, so all this is normal. Cause I was like, God, is my kid like the hard one? Is she the difficult one? You know? Yeah.

Dana - 00:15:34:

No, it's clearly just all that.

Jill - 00:15:36:

Yeah. Well, it wouldn't be surprising if she was a little difficult. She is my kid.

Courtney - 00:15:40:

So she a little dramatic. A little bit.

Jill - 00:15:43:

Okay. Yeah. Cause there's a little bit. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:15:45:

It could be genetic. Yeah.

Jill - 00:15:46:

A little bit. Yeah. I'm sure I wasn't a peach either.

Dana - 00:15:49:

No, I know I wasn't. My parents pulled me out of school cause I was becoming a problem, you know? Oh, that's funny.

Jill - 00:15:56:

I know.

Dana - 00:15:58:

It's probably just like called Courtney a bitch one time. And they were like, oh my God.

Jill - 00:16:01:

She called me a bitch.

Dana - 00:16:02:

But she was being one.

Courtney - 00:16:04:

Yeah. I told her that was unacceptable.

Jill - 00:16:05:

That was your response? Yeah. That is unacceptable.

Courtney - 00:16:07:

Absolutely. I was like, no, you're not going to call me that. It's like, I don't care what you think about all these friends or what you're trying to be cool. It's like, it's just going to be me at the end. Don't call me a bitch. Good for you.

Jill - 00:16:16:

Yeah. I love that. And then that came true. That's what I try to teach my girls.

Courtney - 00:16:18:

It's just me and you. Yeah.

Dana - 00:16:20:

In the end. Yeah. Nothing like a sister.

Jill - 00:16:22:

Nothing like a sister. To bring you back to reality.

Courtney - 00:16:25:

Yes.

Jill - 00:16:26:

Right. Yeah.

Dana - 00:16:27:

So is there anything like, did you discover anything new about yourself during this chapter? Like something you're like, you thought you would never do and you're like, now it's just part of who you are.

Jill - 00:16:38:

Yeah, I don't even... You know, it's hard because I don't even necessarily, like, feel like there was any, like, changing moment or anything. I just... I don't even... I'm not the same person at all. So when I look back on who I was then... And I'm going to say this. So I had another widow that after her husband passed away, I reached out to her and sent her some food. And I've just kind of like talked her through the process. She's only about a year out. And she said she went to a medium and that she was talking to her husband. And I was like, gosh, I don't even know that TJ would even know who I am anymore. Like, I don't, you know what I mean? I'm so different. Like, would he even like me anymore? Would he even love me anymore? Like, I'm such a different person because of that, because of how my life changed so much. I think that... I'm much more of a badass than I ever realized, like what I'm capable of doing. And also I'd probably say like the key for me was like delegation. Like I really, my dad tells me, he's like, God, if I could delegate like you, I'd be the president of the United States. But that's the only way I could manage it all, was to like trust people and really delegate a lot of it. But I don't know that there was any like defining moment where I feel like something like clicked with me. I just kept going forward. I just kept moving forward.

Dana - 00:17:53:

I think like even like for when I remember Donovan's dish, like my mind in the beginning, TJ was like the face of it. And that's all, but every like even marketing stuff, right? And I remember like you were there, but then exactly what you said, like it's just all of a sudden it would just became Jill. Yeah. Right. And I remember it was extremely intimidating because I was like, man, she is like such a badass, like businesswoman and like gorgeous and beautiful and all the things. And, but I think it's just, I, it was really neat to see that. Like I felt that transformation of you kind of being seen like you're behind the scenes and all of a sudden, you know, here you are.

Jill - 00:18:36:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:18:37:

Meeting this massive company.

Jill - 00:18:39:

I was, I branded the chef. That's who I wanted to brand. And he was so handsome and he was fun. Like we had like all these crazy ad campaigns and we had more that we didn't get to do. But I, uh. I like to be, I know that's crazy because I'm so outgoing and social, but I don't like, like, attention like that. Like, I'd prefer, like, like last night with the photos. I was like, okay, I'm good with the photos, guys. You know, like, I, so I branded him. He was, he was definitely the face of the company. Yeah. Yeah. So I had no choice but to, but to step up, you know. Yeah. So. Yeah. I'm still not that comfortable, though. Yeah. I think I remember talking to you about, like, the public speaking aspect and how, like, you guys are so eloquent and, like, confident when you're up there. And I get, like, I almost get, like, like a quiver in my cheek. It's, like, nerves or anxiety. And Courtney was like, ah, you'll get used to it. Don't worry. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:19:24:

Yeah. You do. Yeah.

Dana - 00:19:24:

I still get super nervous about it. She does. I get really anxious. I do get through, like, the first, like, minute and then I'm, like, fine. Yeah. Then it's just, like, muscle memory.

Jill - 00:19:33:

I don't know. Well, I was watching you two at your fundraiser last year for Interact and just like how you were just up there. So like it was like seamless, like you're just up there chatting with your friends and it's like we're 250 strangers, you know. And I just remember thinking like, gosh, you're so good at that.

Courtney - 00:19:46:

That was a comfortable space though. Like that felt like our people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jill - 00:19:50:

For sure. That little tent.

Courtney - 00:19:52:

The little tent. Yeah. Yeah. The little tiny. Little tent. Yeah.

Dana - 00:19:55:

Little baby tent.

Jill - 00:19:55:

Are you doing that again this year?

Dana - 00:19:57:

We are, but we moved it to the fall. Gotcha. Trying to separate from like side note, trying to separate from Maryman Wynne's party. Yeah. Create more space.

Courtney - 00:20:04:

Yeah. Weeks after each other. Yeah.

Dana - 00:20:06:

Yeah. So we're doing it in the fall. Yeah. Nice.

Courtney - 00:20:10:

I remember, I'm getting back to the podcast. I remember thinking during that time, like, is Donovan's Dish going to continue? Yeah. Yeah. I remember, like. Not that there was any indication that it wasn't, but I was just thinking, like, how? Yeah. Like, it just seemed, like, between, like, the new baby and, like, all the kids and Jill's Beach. Like, it just seemed, like, so much. I was like, how is she going to do it? Yeah. And then you did it. Yeah.

Jill - 00:20:30:

And that's probably surprising. I agree. Yeah. Especially, again, I don't cook. Yeah. So, and I know that, like, the landlord at the space that we had just leased, he would have let me out of my lease. Like, you know, so there wouldn't have been any issues as far as with those things. You know, I could have easily walked away, but that was, we had built that brand together. Like, that was my future. That's what we had planned on being the future. The venue was part of the plan. And so all of those things, it became, it was originally TJ's passion, but the business side of it was my passion. So that's, it just became my passion as well. I never once thought about shutting it down. Not once. Really? Yeah. Not once. Now I went back to work. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

Courtney - 00:21:10:

That's crazy.

Dana - 00:21:10:

So, like, I just, I feel like women in general are just so, I don't know. They have so much grit and tenacity in those moments. You know what I mean? And sometimes I think about it, like, if roles were reversed, would a guy be able to do the same thing? Would they be able to pick themselves up, raise this family, and then constantly, you're constantly thinking about the next thing. Like, it's not like, okay, well, I have Jill's Beach and that's on lock, and now I have Donovan's and that's on lock, and we're doing great. It's like, no, like, I, what's the next thing? Right? Obvious by your domain buying.

Jill - 00:21:39:

Yeah. I can't stop myself. Yeah. I have a couple glasses of wine. You should see my domains. Right. Really? What am I ever going to do with that? I don't know. It's fine. It's there. It's like $2.99 a year. Right.

Courtney - 00:21:48:

There you go. We'll keep it. Yeah. What are you paying per year in domains really though?

Jill - 00:21:52:

A couple hundred dollars now. The most random ones. Yeah.

Dana - 00:21:58:

I love that. But yeah, I love that. And I love that you just stay so motivated. How, like, what is it about, like, what keeps you so motivated to continue to

Jill - 00:22:07:

It brings me joy, I think. Like, I love business. Like, I really do. Like, that's what makes me feel, like, satisfied. That's really what I enjoy doing. I like to build a brand. And then I, I don't know, like, I like to build brands. That's why I like to open up so many tanning salons. Or that's why I have the two markets. And I'm hopefully going to have a third market soon. Why not? I'm doing a venue. Why not do a market also? Why not? Why not? See, those are already in place, though. The whole business model's there. So it's just mimicking it, you know, and getting people to run it. But, yeah, it's really what inspires me. It makes me feel good. Like, that's what I like. That's Jill Fiore, not Jill Donovan. That's me. Yeah, I love that.

Dana - 00:22:47:

Love that.

Courtney - 00:22:49:

So like getting kind of back to that around that time, how would you keep a professional as a boss? Like during that time, like how did you like get into boss mode and like, keep it together.

Jill - 00:22:59:

Yeah. You know, what's funny is I had a, um, I had an employee and it's not, not a positive thing that she, uh, she sends me like hate messages every now and then. What? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like psycho. That is psycho. Yeah. And I was like, um, I, uh, I couldn't, I'm, I'm sorry that you didn't like the way that I was a manager or a boss after my husband passed away and I was in postpartum, but I, uh, I know that I liked you and I was sorry to see you leave. Like, I don't remember. We did not have the same exact, uh, experience at all. Right. Um, which then, you know, I get a comment back like that's, that scares her even more. That means I'm still the same horrible boss. I'm like, clearly I'm not a horrible boss. I feel it worked for me for over 20 years. Right. Right. I'm a good boss. Yeah. Um, So I think I just, I had, again, I had a good team. I just tried to go on with like business as usual. I didn't hide from grief. Like I was, you know, some days I didn't want to go into work and I didn't get out of bed. But I do think the business, I mean, it did suffer after TJ passed. Like the quality of food, you know, the innovation, all of that really fell off. Luckily, I have peers like you guys who still supported me and didn't, you know, not invite us back to their venues and things like that. So I think it took some time for me to grab the reins of the back of the house, which I was very unfamiliar with. And so for me to grab those reins and kind of reestablish and set like a standard. That TJ had set, that took some time. That wasn't a very smooth process. It just took me finding like confidence as a leader for something I knew nothing about and having to learn it. I still don't know a lot about it. I mean, I know what it's supposed to look like. I know what it's supposed to taste like. And I know when it's not right. So that's my skill set in the kitchen.

Courtney - 00:24:39:

It tastes bad. Fix it.

Jill - 00:24:41:

Which is funny, right? All day I'm critiquing chefs and I don't cook. They love that. But I know what it's supposed to taste like. I feel like I'm good at what the general population likes. I know what's good and what's not good. Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:24:53:

I definitely agree with that. It's always good. Food's always good. Yeah.

Dana - 00:24:57:

It is, but I think, but I even think that that's a talent just even though it doesn't seem like a skill, like knowing like, hey, this isn't right. Like some people are just going to be like, oh, it's good enough or it's okay. Right. And I feel like that's how like a lot of, people just approach, especially batch cooking, especially catering. It's like, oh, well, if this was a restaurant, it would be X, Y, Z. But since we're cooking for 200, this is the best it can be. And I appreciate people that are like, no, no. Yeah. Like this is the excellence and the standard and.

Jill - 00:25:23:

Yeah, I think batch cooking is a skill for sure. It's completely different than any like chefs at restaurants. You can be an amazing chef at a restaurant and not know how to batch cook at all. And vice versa, the batch cooks may not be a great, you know, they don't know how to cook for two or one person. I do think that for us, even though like, you know, we're not always perfect. We mess up sometimes too. I think that the quality and the consistency is there though. You know, I love it. Like most of our reviews are like best wedding food I ever had. And I'm like, wedding food doesn't have to be crappy.

Dana - 00:25:51:

It doesn't have to suck.

Jill - 00:25:53:

It's not dry chicken anymore, guys. Like eventually it's come a long way. It's true.

Courtney - 00:25:56:

That's so true. Yeah. Thank the Lord. I know.

Jill - 00:25:58:

Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:25:59:

It was bad for a long time. It was.

Dana - 00:26:01:

Sometimes still is like other places.

Courtney - 00:26:03:

Yeah. So you said that you kind of like things fell off a little bit. Is there anything like looking back? Like, and not like on a judgment level of yourself, because I think like you obviously did an amazing job. Is there anything looking back that you regret or like I would have changed this?

Jill - 00:26:18:

I think I would have probably taken reins of the kitchen sooner. Okay. Yeah. I kind of just didn't tread back there. And it's probably because I felt like I didn't know enough. So who am I to go back there? I hired a coach that I met at Engage, a leadership coach. And he was $500 an hour for a phone call once a week. But he really, really helped me. He really changed like how to find my voice as a leader and my confidence and like what I wanted. So I think that was probably, that was a good turning point for me as a boss. Like, no, I'm just going to go in there and I'm going to do it. I put him on a couple of phone calls with like a couple of my chefs. I would have them call in with him too and just kind of talk through some issues that I felt like they had or they were able to talk through it as well. So I think that that probably helped me a lot. That's probably the biggest thing is that I wish I would have taken the reins back there and not been intimidated. Okay. To go back there. Yeah.

Dana - 00:27:11:

Okay.

Jill - 00:27:11:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:27:12:

Probably had to have been super intimidating though.

Jill - 00:27:14:

I mean, I don't know.

Dana - 00:27:15:

It's like a lot to juggle all at once. Yeah.

Jill - 00:27:17:

And I also always managed women. I never managed men. And it was an entire kitchen of men. Yeah.

Dana - 00:27:22:

Which is very different managing. Yeah.

Jill - 00:27:25:

It's very different.

Dana - 00:27:26:

Yeah. So what would you, what would be like your biggest piece of advice that you would give somebody who's like, I'm just going through something that's just, is now like having to something personal in life is having to seep into their business or like, what is the best piece of advice you can give someone going through that?

Jill - 00:27:40:

I would say that. I think just show yourself some grace. I think that's the best advice I could give somebody is, like, focus on, like, your future and what you want, but give yourself some grace. Like, it's not going to be easy. Right. But it doesn't have to be the most difficult thing either. Just allow yourself some mistakes and some time to breathe. But just keep going forward. Keep pushing forward.

Dana - 00:28:02:

Yeah. One foot in front of the other. Yeah.

Jill - 00:28:05:

That's what my mama's saying to me. Yeah. My mama. Ooh, I sounded like I was from that joke. You did. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:28:13:

Wow.

Jill - 00:28:13:

That's my mother saying.

Courtney - 00:28:15:

That's your mother saying.

Dana - 00:28:16:

That's much more refined.

Courtney - 00:28:19:

One thing I always think about when I think about you is I think about your girls. One, they're like always floating around. Like it's amazing how you integrate them so well. Yeah, thanks. Into everything. Like just, it always just feels like not a big deal. Yeah. You know, and obviously it's just been you. So I guess it has to not be a big deal. But I always think about what you're showing your girls. It always is so inspiring to me.

Jill - 00:28:41:

Thank you.

Courtney - 00:28:41:

So, like, thinking through that, like— Like, what's your biggest reflection on that?

Jill - 00:28:47:

Well, I appreciate you saying that because that's like the most thing in my heart that I feel like I'm not really succeeding at. Really? Yeah. Yeah. What? Yeah, I'm really tough on myself as a mom. Mm-hmm. Well, I yell. I'm a yeller. Yeah. You're passionate. I am passionate. Yeah. Yeah. So for the girls though, it's like everybody always says to me how they're always smiling and how they're happy and like all of like their teachers, like they're the nicest kids. And so I'm like, well, I am doing something right.

Courtney - 00:29:13:

Yeah.

Jill - 00:29:14:

Um, I think as they get older, it's getting a little bit easier. And I've always managed women, like that's my thing. Like at Meredith, I loved women's studies. And so I feel like me having three little girls was just like the way it was supposed to be. And I get to like manage three little humans and raise them. And, but I just try to really with them, show them life is fun and that something sad happened to us. We don't have a sad life. And that you work hard and hard work pays off, but you still can have fun and enjoy life. And I mean, what a life that we have, you know, I mean, they're surrounded by people who love them and celebrate them and celebrate their family. And we throw epic parties all the time. I mean, you know, so they're surrounded by good food and hospitality and really good energy.

Courtney - 00:30:04:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:30:04:

I love that. And I think we've mentioned this before that sometimes in our industry, we have this kind of martyr attitude, like, and it, and it is hard, the events industry is super hard, but you run into so many, um, Owners and entrepreneurs in this industry and they're just like downtrodden. They're like, oh my gosh, it's so hard. October was awful, blah, blah. And like, and it's like, you want to, it's like those one upper conversations. Like, well, let me tell you how terrible my month was. Well, let me tell you how terrible this event was. Right. And there is something so refreshing. That, I mean, in any time, like we have, like we see you interact or whatnot, it's always like life is great. Yeah. Like everything's great. And yeah, it's hard. Sure. Like not to downplay that this industry is hard, but it's, I love your positive outlook on. Yes. But because of it, we have this amazing life. Like look at how much that we have and we can go on vacations and we can celebrate and we can do all this stuff. And I feel like there just needs to be more of that in the world. And when I think about your girls, I think about how they're going to encounter hard things. And I know they're going to look at this and say, we, we did hard things and we did hard things with joy and with love and gratitude and, you know, had a beautiful life because of it, you know?

Jill - 00:31:20:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so important. Yeah. I'm just not a negative person at all. So I like, I try to focus on the positive. I don't even try. It's just who I am. Yeah. So even if something crappy has happened or an event doesn't go well, like I just take accountability for it, ownership of it. I try to do whatever I can to go over the top to make it right for the person. And then I feel good. I don't ever want to be a person that held back on something, you know, I go over and above to fix it and try to make it right and take accountability. And I think that that's part of like the positive attitude. That's part of like moving forward is like, you have to, that's how you learn from it. I don't want to, I don't want to bitch about stuff. I want to, I want to smile about stuff. I want to have fun. I want to work hard and I want to be serious, but I want to enjoy it too. I love hospitality. I love it. I do. And I never would have chosen it as, you know, it got handed to me. Yeah. So apparently my universe had a plan as well. Yeah. But I love it. I think it is a beast of a business. There is no doubt about it. And as a caterer, we're not often treated the best. You know, we're treated like the help. I always say like, if I put my hair up in a sock bun and put on a black apron, people don't know I'm the owner. And the way they treat me is unbelievable, you know? But luckily The team, they love, you know, at the end of the day, we made somebody's dreams come true. And so they love that too. We all focus on the positive and the teamwork of it, even if it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, you just focus on the positive of it.

Courtney - 00:32:43:

I think it has to be like, you got to see the positive of it. It's got to be somewhat fun. You throw parties for a living, basically. So like if you're not having fun on some level, you're doing it wrong.

Jill - 00:32:52:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:32:52:

And I think that that translates to your clients too. Like they feel when like some member of their event team, whatever it is, whether you're the planner, the photographer, the caterer, et cetera, like they feel that energy from you. Like if you're loving what you're doing or if you're just there, like getting a paycheck. You know what I mean? You have to be on and you have to love it like intrinsically to be able to be the best version of whatever it is you're doing, you know?

Jill - 00:33:16:

I think about like your kids too, like how lucky they have this chateau that they get to go hang out at and have parties at and like be a part of these celebrations. Like it's really a very special life. I really believe that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To be able to like to be surrounded by celebrations constantly. It doesn't mean that there's not hard times, but it's just a different, I really do. I think it forms just a different outlook on life. Like you see the good, you see the happy. You see dancing and music and flowers and all the pretty. It's really an amazing thing to be exposed to, I feel like, for all of our children.

Dana - 00:33:48:

And it just reminds them that everything's worth celebrating. It's not just weddings, but everything's worth celebrating. Every major thing you do, even minor things that you do. Even at our house, Henry's having a hard time in sixth grade. And so anything that he does that is like B or above, it is like a huge celebration in our house. We're breaking out the ice cream. We're making a cake.

Jill - 00:34:09:

Good for you. I love that.

Dana - 00:34:10:

Because it's hard. For him, it's hard. And so celebrating everything that you have accomplished and that you've worked hard to do, I think, is a great way to, I don't know, approach life. Yeah. Because life is sucky sometimes.

Courtney - 00:34:25:

It's like times it is. You know what I mean?

Dana - 00:34:27:

The world out there sometimes just feels so like, ugh.

Jill - 00:34:31:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:34:31:

And if you can just, I don't know, capture that happiness and celebration at home, why not?

Jill - 00:34:37:

Absolutely. Yeah. And you guys know how to throw really good parties. Yeah.

Dana - 00:34:40:

We try. We try.

Jill - 00:34:41:

So do you. The other thing, too, just kind of getting back to what you said, is that you felt like the thing you're struggling with the most is parenting. Yes. Which I think all of us have our fair share of parenting guilt or I'm not doing good enough. I mean, for example— the vice principal at my son's elementary school, is like on my Christmas list now because we talk so much. I have to invite her to my parties. Like we were like best friends and she'll call and be like, I haven't heard from you in like four weeks, but... Great, yes. So, you know, like we all have our thing, right? And, you know, trying our best. But I think too, and I especially feel this way about women entrepreneurs who are raising future women, future girls. Like, I love that your daughters get to see you pursue what you're passionate about so passionately. Sometimes at the expense of time with them are things that they need. Because I don't want my child to grow up and think that their life is in service to somebody else or to their kids or to whatever. Like, you're pursuing you and they're watching you this whole time. And it gives them the freedom to pursue them when they become moms and business owners or whatever it is that they're going to do. And I think... There's not a better gift that you can give your kids. So even when you're spiraling and it's going crazy, like literally you're showing them like how to be a badass woman when it's their turn to be that.

Jill - 00:35:59:

Yeah, I like it when they get excited. Like yesterday at the groundbreaking, Jillian's like, this is so cool. You know, she was so excited about it. And the littles were having so much fun. And you could tell like they were feeling it. They were excited about it. Because, you know, you never know if it's going to go to like a complete shit show and somebody's going to have a meltdown and refuses to wear the tights and it's 30 degrees outside, you know. And that's the stuff that like will put me in a spiral. Like, just put on your damn tights. You know, like I can't take that. That to me is like, no, that's where I start yelling. Like it's basic. It's freezing. Put on your tights, you know. But yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that we all get to be a part of all the good and then also represent for the children. Like, yeah, you know. My mom, my dad was the boss of the business, but my mom always ran the offices too. But she was, that's probably where I like originally kind of misled. You know, I was behind the scenes, you know. And my dad was like, you know, the big guy at the front, you know. But she always, she was, I actually didn't know this about her. She told me this not too long ago that she won a station wagon from Tupperware. She sold the most Tupperware and she got a station wagon. Wow. In like the 70s. And I was like, how do I not know this about you, mom? Like you got a station wagon in the 70s for selling Tupperware. She's like, oh yeah, I was the best on Long Island. I'm like, okay, Joanne. I didn't know. Yeah. So she taught me. She also always taught me, which I think is imperative, to always have a plan B, to never depend on a man for money, which is hysterical. Because I think women raise their daughters to be badasses and not need a man. And they raise their sons to always need a woman. That's true. I see how my friends are with their little boys and they're putting their shirts on for them in kindergarten. And then I see with my daughters, the girls are like three and they're like, put your shirt on. It's so different.

Courtney - 00:37:41:

It's so true.

Jill - 00:37:42:

Yeah. It is so true. They're so needy.

Courtney - 00:37:44:

Like you don't have a little boy. I mean, literally, they are so needy. They are. It's crazy.

Jill - 00:37:49:

So I think that the girls, like my mom obviously raised me to always be independent and to never. Not need a man because it was very traditional roles at my house and still is. You know, my mom always cooked, you know, did the laundry, those things. But she always raised me to, like, still do those things, but to always, like, be responsible for myself. To always make sure that I was never trapped, that I was never, like, stuck with a man or that I could always support myself and my family on my own.

Courtney - 00:38:14:

Yeah. Yeah.

Dana - 00:38:16:

Yeah.

Courtney - 00:38:16:

Those are great tools. Yeah. Yeah, and you're passing them on to your girls. Yeah. Yeah.

Jill - 00:38:21:

I had a neighbor the other day come over and she told me, she said, now that you're, you know, expanding these businesses and doing so much, she's like, I really think you should, like, ask your girls to start thinking about, like, what part of the business do they like the most? Like, which one would like marketing? Which one would like to be, like, a manager? Which one would like to do, like, events? Like, start, like, asking them to, like, start thinking about, like, what roles they want in the business. And I hadn't thought of that. I mean, I'm building these businesses ideally for, like, a legacy and then they would all come work at it. But if she wants, Cameron wants to go be a teacher, she can go be a teacher, you know? Like, she's the third of the business. You'll be able to.

Courtney - 00:38:55:

You'll be able to support her the whole time. Yeah.

Jill - 00:38:56:

Because she'll need it. Yeah, I know. That's a shame, isn't it? It is a shame.

Dana - 00:38:59:

Yeah.

Jill - 00:39:00:

So, I love that. And so, I did. I immediately talked to the girls. And so, Presley says that she wants to run the markets and Jalene wants to do events and Cameron, she just wants to do everything. So, you know, but I love that little piece of advice. I was like, because I don't try to, like, pigeonhole them. Like, this is your future, right? You can be whatever you want to be. Right.

Dana - 00:39:19:

Yeah. But it's also like, but I think that they know they can be whatever they want to be because they see, you know, something that you created from nothing, like literally created from nothing. And like, what's a better way to say you can do it? You can do anything. You can be anything then. Than that. And I, and that's, to me for ADA, she's always, always said she never wanted to be in the industry because she said, I just look too stressed. Like, like this is her. And she was three and four. She's like, you're too stressed. Like that's, that's too stressed. And I was like, yeah, that's valid and fair point. But now, like, I feel like we've really changed the way that we approach business. Like it's not, I had a hard time in the beginning balancing business and life. And so I always felt like I had to give a hundred percent everywhere. And then obviously you can't and whatever. And so now that I'm like, I'm so much happier. I feel like there is a great balance for it. Like we celebrate all the time. We travel all the time. We do all these things. And she's like, wait a minute. I think I want to do that.

Jill - 00:40:17:

This is a good life. This is fun.

Dana - 00:40:18:

This is, this is, this is, this sounds really cool. So tell me a little bit more, tell me a little more about this. Yeah.

Jill - 00:40:23:

I love that.

Dana - 00:40:24:

I know.

Courtney - 00:40:24:

I love that too. I think Nora's totally banking on it. Yeah. Yeah. That's her plan.

Dana - 00:40:28:

Oh, I love that. Totally fine. Like I would love, I mean, again, like it is like that kind of building that legacy and creating, you know, that future for them. And like, we didn't have generational wealth and I would love for our kids to have generational wealth. Absolutely.

Jill - 00:40:40:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:40:43:

That's the goal. Not getting any easier out there.

Dana - 00:40:45:

No, it's not getting any easier out there.

Jill - 00:40:46:

No, no, no.

Dana - 00:40:47:

Should I buy land right now for you to have a house? Because that's the only way you're going to ever afford a house. Like, yeah, it's true in this area.

Jill - 00:40:54:

It's true. That's why we moved down from Long Island. My parents had bought land out in the Hamptons and they could afford to live out there, but they were like, our children will never be able to live near us. They can never afford to. They can never live out here. So that's why we moved down to North Carolina. Interesting.

Courtney - 00:41:06:

Yeah.

Jill - 00:41:06:

Hmm. So. That's cool. You're on the right track. You're thinking properly. Oh, I am.

Courtney - 00:41:13:

So what are you looking forward to most in this season of your life? You have so many things, so many good things, so many things going on. What are you looking forward to the most?

Jill - 00:41:21:

I, well, I do have a lot of really good things going on. We know that. But I, I think building the manor, Donovan Manor, that's really, really exciting to me and daunting. But really exciting to see such a big project and such a big dream come to life is really exciting. I'm really excited about it.

Courtney - 00:41:41:

It's like your original dream. Yeah. It's like what you wanted to do like 20 years ago.

Jill - 00:41:44:

That's what I wanted to do in my 40s and here I am. Yeah, here you are. I'm 47 and I'm doing it. Yeah. So that's good. And I never thought I was a goal setter. That's funny. I just don't have any business plans. I just like, well, I had to write one for this one. And I was like, what fluff this is. It's like being in college where you have to write an essay. It's all fluff. So Donovan Manor is very exciting to me. I have a new relationship that's very exciting to me too. So hopefully that'll continue to be as positive as it's been. And that makes me really happy.

Dana - 00:42:14:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jill - 00:42:16:

Love and life. Love and life. And business. Love, life, and business. How's that? Your memoir.

Courtney - 00:42:21:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:42:22:

I know. You probably could write a new thing.

Jill - 00:42:24:

I should get that domain immediately. You should. I will as soon as we leave here. I promise.

Dana - 00:42:27:

Love life and business.

Jill - 00:42:30:

Okay.

Dana - 00:42:31:

Oh, well, thanks so much for chatting with us today.

Jill - 00:42:33:

Thank you.

Courtney - 00:42:34:

Taking some time out of your busy schedule to come chat with us.

Jill - 00:42:37:

I adore y'all. Thank you.

Courtney - 00:42:39:

We adore you. You guys are amazing.

Jill - 00:42:40:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:42:40:

We're excited about Portugal.

Jill - 00:42:42:

Yes. Yes. We just got to get on the calendar. You're busy, Dana. I know.

Courtney - 00:42:45:

Dana's so busy. Yeah.

Jill - 00:42:47:

Dana's like, well, I have this this month and this this month and this. I'm like, dang. It's true. So, Courtney and I are going to Myrtle Beach like we talked about last night.

Courtney - 00:42:54:

Dana will be in Ireland. Yeah. We'll be at Myrtle Beach. Yeah. It's the same. Same, same. That's all right. Yeah.

Jill - 00:43:00:

I have a small boat now, so we can take the boat out. Okay, there you go. It's called social distancing is what it's called. Is it? Okay. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I got it during the pandemic. Yeah.

Courtney - 00:43:08:

It's not called shrimp and grit. No.

Jill - 00:43:10:

It's not the grit.

Courtney - 00:43:10:

It's just the grit. One grit. Yeah.

Jill - 00:43:12:

Yeah. Not quite yet. Yeah.

Dana - 00:43:13:

Yeah. It's coming. It will happen. That's the next one. Yeah.

Jill - 00:43:16:

That's a goal for sure.

Dana - 00:43:17:

Yeah. Love it.

Courtney - 00:43:19:

All right. Well, thanks so much for being with us.

Jill - 00:43:20:

Thanks, ladies.

Courtney - 00:43:29:

To learn more about our hustles, visit us on the gram @C&D Events, at the Bradford and C, @Anthem.house, and @Hustle & Gather. And if you're interested in learning more about our speaking, training, or venue consulting, head to our website at hustleandgather.com.

Dana - 00:43:43:

And if you love us and you love this show, we'd be more than honored if you left a rating and a review.

Courtney - 00:43:47:

This podcast is a production of Your Fluence. I'm Courtney.

Dana - 00:43:51:

And I'm Dana. And we'll talk with you next time on Hustle & Gather.