Jenna - 00:00:00:

The root of this work is loving yourself enough to know your truth and to know what you can do and what's gonna serve everybody the best, right?

Dana - 00:00:20:

Welcome to Hustle and Gather, a podcast about inspiring the everyday entrepreneur to take the leap. I'm Dana Kadwell.

Jenna - 00:00:26:

And I'm Jenna Parks.

Dana - 00:00:28:

Courtney is taking a sabbatical this season to focus on her personal life and family. But as we know, the show must go on. Luckily, Courtney and I have been supported by a community of Honorary Sisters throughout our careers, and Jenna is one of them.

Jenna - 00:00:42:

So this season, Dana will be joined by a new Honorary Sisters each episode, and I'm honored to be the first.

Dana - 00:00:51:

And this year we're talking with our guests about three important topics in the entrepreneurial journey. First one was team building,

Jenna - 00:00:58:

Work-life balance,

Dana - 00:00:59:

And how to recover from tragedy, both in business and in life.

Jenna - 00:01:03:

Last week, we talked all about being a parent and an entrepreneur with Megan Ely, owner of OFD Consulting.

Dana - 00:01:10:

So this week, the two of us are talking about the lessons we learned from Megan about business and life, and some of the mistakes that we have made along the way. Well, that was a great episode with Megan.

Jenna - 00:01:20:

I love her. I love getting the chance to see her again and have that great conversation. She's so full of energy and insights.

Dana - 00:01:29:

I know. I knew she'd be a great guest just from personal conversations. She's so intense about her job and so intense about her family. And I'm like, how do you do it all? And it's surprising we said she got eight hours of sleep. Because she never. You send her email, you get an email back within, I swear, 30 seconds. Every time. I'm like, do you just live on your computer? How do you do that? She's so crazy organized.

Jenna - 00:01:50:

Anyone who says that they get eight hours of sleep a night is my personal hero.

Dana - 00:01:55:

Yeah. I know. That's my forever goal and dream. I feel that. I get it more in the summer because we don't have to wake up to like 7 as opposed to like 5:36 than we do in the school year, but still.

Jenna - 00:02:06:

Cool, yeah. And we did touch on the Saturday morning sleep.

Dana - 00:02:11:

Yeah, I'm a big fan of that too.

Jenna - 00:02:12:

Me too. And I basically make up for all of my lack of sleep throughout the week on Friday and Saturday night.

Dana - 00:02:19:

Yes. Well, what was your, we're going to jump in here, what was your favorite overall takeaway that she said or that we talked about?

Jenna - 00:02:29:

Well, the quote that I wrote down that is really coming to mind here is she said, even during your busiest times, you can still make time for yourself. I love that. And that is something I don't think I'm terrible at. I think I do make time for friends and family and exercise and the things, but I definitely don't always do it consistently. And I love that that really does seem to be part of her just being, is that she lives by that. It's a beautiful thing.

Dana - 00:03:01:

Yeah. I have a hard time with the exercise part. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that I hate doing my hair. Like, I hate it. And so, and I like, in the summertime, I swim. That's my exercise is we have a pool, I know, like, and I just swim, like laps. But I have a hard time, like, justifying, like, OK, if I go swimming now, like, then I have to take a shower and then I have to blow dry my hair and then do all this stuff.

Jenna - 00:03:21:

I can relate to that one.

Dana - 00:03:23:

And I'm like, I don't want to do it, you know, and so you're like, you know, you're not going to organize your day or whatever. But last summer, I started summer out the same way every single time. And then eventually I start swimming. I realized I love it. It's like clarity. It just kind of calms me. And I realized I just don't care. My hair looks like crap most of the summer anyways. I just put in a ponytail and a clip because it's too hot. So why am I even caring about it?

Jenna - 00:03:44:

But yeah, I mean, we all feel we know this. Again, we know all these things when I make time for exercise. I feel better. I work better. I'm more productive. but it is not always the easiest to fit it into a busy day.

Dana - 00:04:02:

And it's such a lie we tell ourselves too. I think it was two years ago I realized, and I think the world's coming around to it, that the expectations were supposed to be efficient for eight hours a day, right? And that's just not true. We're really only efficient for two or three hours a day, truly. We can get super hard tasks done, very brain, mind-consuming tasks, basically three hours a day. You can't do that for eight hours and be a person at the end of it, right? And so it's like recognizing, OK, I need to protect this time and make sure I'm doing something really productive during this time. And then all the other time around it, I'm making it so I can be productive the next day. So it's like cleaning out my inbox, cleaning off my desk, doing the filing, all that stuff. They still have to do.

Jenna - 00:04:46:

Yeah. Right. Do you divvy your day out like that?

Dana - 00:04:49:

I do.

Jenna - 00:04:49:

Do you actually plan, these are my two focus hours and?

Dana - 00:04:53:

Yep. Because I have to, because I feel like it's just like, and I have to tell my team that otherwise they'll come in and like to my office and then I get, you know, sidetracked and derailed and all that stuff. So,

Jenna - 00:05:05:

Oh yes. I can relate to that too.

Dana - 00:05:07:

But I do love that. I think that it's a lie. I tell myself that I don't have time, that I'm too busy. I don't have time.

Jenna - 00:05:13:

Absolutely.

Dana - 00:05:13:

Yeah, that was true.

Jenna - 00:05:14:

I also really liked how we started talking about exercise, but Megan specifically gave herself grace in that department and said, I have my sleep. And she said, I mean, even if she wants to work out, that's not always the thing that's able to happen, but she still is finding other ways to preserve her boundaries in her time.

Dana - 00:05:34:

Yeah, that was great. Well, I really loved when she was talking about her story about how she became an entrepreneur and that she recognized this was like a place she didn't want to be a part of and like just the toxicity of where she was working. She made a comment, she said, it took a lot to build that life and I had no room to let that in, like that negativity and that kind of like feeling of that panicky feeling. And I don't have a similar situation at all, but I thought that was so powerful in general when you think about it, like how you, all of us have constructed this life and we have let things in and taken things out based on our own personal traumas and experiences. And sometimes you can feel yourself falling back into maybe a trauma cycle or whatnot. And just that powerful statement to say, I have built this and I'm not, there's no room for that anymore. I think it's super strong.

Jenna - 00:06:27:

So strong, that's the word that I was on the tip of my tongue, just so powerful that she's got that attitude and is able to live by it. I love that too. I did have a couple of jobs in, I guess, kind of, well, nonprofit and then corporate world before I became, well, we can call it an entrepreneur. I entered into, my mother was really the entrepreneur and I entered into her business and we ran it together, but I did the opposite. I am the example of the person that did feel like it was too much for me when I became a mother and then became a single mother so quickly. I could have done it, you know, I could have, but the opportunity presented itself to merge with another very like-minded, small family business, larger media group, and I took that opportunity. Absolutely am so happy that I did. It was the best, but I, you know, now I admire the people who have stuck with the entrepreneur's life.

Dana - 00:07:35:

Yeah, but I think it's so brave to say that just because, and I think there is this mentality that if you go from being an entrepreneur to working for somebody you've failed in some way, but I think it's really brave and really powerful to say, you know what, this isn't serving my life right now. And I am more happy, more fulfilled, and I still get to do all the things I love and still creative. I still, in the industry, I'm still doing the things that like brought me joy, but I'm doing it in a way that's sustainable so I can like raise my daughter.

Jenna - 00:08:03:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:08:03:

You know, because you don't have that third person, you know, you don't have that family meeting, right? Where, you know, that's hard.

Jenna - 00:08:10:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:08:10:

I cannot imagine doing that by myself.

Jenna - 00:08:12:

Yeah. Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. I mean, I do also have, I'm kind of spoiled because even this company that I'm with now, like I said, it's a family-run business. It's still small. There's about 25 people. So I now have a lot more support on the wedding publication side, but it's also given me a chance to spread my wings and learn new skills. So that's actually helped me propel my career in a bigger way.

Dana - 00:08:46:

It's still your brand.

Jenna - 00:08:48:

Yeah, absolutely.

Dana - 00:08:49:

It's still who you are. Like they haven't like bastardized it or anything like that.

Jenna - 00:08:51:

Absolutely. They've given me a lot of power in that capacity to keep that control. So yeah, I feel a little spoiled, but still, I have support now in ways that someone like Megan or you and Courtney do not. So hats off to you guys.

Dana - 00:09:08:

Thanks. What was your favorite business takeaway that she said that you feel like you could apply to work and business life?

Jenna - 00:09:15:

Honestly, the thing that's standing out to me in this moment as we're chatting is her relationships with boundaries. Again, it's one of those things, it's like going to therapy, this whole thing. We know these things, but being reminded of them is important, but I genuinely feel like she embodies it and is true to her word when she says, I say no to things, I set these boundaries, I only take certain meetings, I only take certain positions on boards that I can do, and if I can't do it in this moment, maybe it comes later. So I love that, I love that. As somebody who always wants to say yes, that is a huge standout to me.

Dana - 00:10:04:

Yeah, I mean, totally same page boundaries for sure. And I loved it when she said, it takes work to build a life with boundaries. And I feel like that. And it's like, you can change your mindset with that. Because I think so many times you say, OK, if I say no, I'm going to seem like you're not doing enough or whatever.

Jenna - 00:10:22:

Letting someone down.

Dana - 00:10:23:

Right. But it actually takes work to build a life where you can say no. And it takes a lot of effort. And it takes a lot of understanding who you are and what you can be successful at. And I really resonated with her story about being the root mom and how the one that, because she was telling me a story. And I was like, and you're taught a lot of times, especially being on, you were on a board, you're on, and they sport for many years. that volunteers are volunteers. Like you can't have expectations, but you can't have standards necessarily because they're volunteers. So they're doing the best they can, they're giving the most they can. And she was like, well, actually, no. Like if you can't give 100% as a volunteer, then just don't do it. Because what it's doing is it's creating so much work for everybody else and it's making it harder. To me, that's an out. That's me saying, you know what, I would love to be helpful. I'd love to go and be the room mom, but I know I'm not gonna do it with fidelity and wealth because I don't have the ability and it's actually better. And I'm serving that class better by saying no.

Jenna - 00:11:23:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:11:23:

Right? Like how freeing is that?

Jenna - 00:11:26:

Absolutely, absolutely. I think to the point of, well, all of this combined, the work to set boundaries, because I think the root of this work is loving yourself enough to know your truth and to know what you can do and what's gonna serve everybody the best, right?

Dana - 00:11:47:

That's so true, loving yourself, I love that. I mean, because it's so hard to love yourself.

Jenna - 00:11:51:

It's the lifelong journey.

Dana - 00:11:53:

It's lifelong journey.

Jenna - 00:11:54:

It really is.

Dana - 00:11:55:

In every aspect, right? I was actually totally digressing into this conversation a little bit, but I was watching some TikTok or real, I don't know which one, and it was about why do people our age, I guess millennials, I don't know, whatever, struggle with body issues so much? And then they started putting up all these pictures of who the models were. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm a fit person, but I still will not wear a traditional two-piece bathing suit. I know, because I'm just like, it's in my mind I don't have this perfect four-pack abs. You know what I mean? And how unrealistic is that? But that's what we were taught beauty was.

Jenna - 00:12:35:

Oh yeah, for so long. It is very easy to see why we have that mindset. I think I can still claim millennial. I think I'm technically a zennial. I'm like the oldest millennial there is.

Dana - 00:12:45:

Yeah, I'm like cusp,

Jenna - 00:12:46:

Right, But yeah, being in the magazine industry too, I can really, I mean, even just in the years that I have worked on Heart of NC Weddings, the priorities of who we are featuring has changed. And I had to wake up to the fact, I mean, I know I'm just a little local magazine, but I really enjoy taking ownership of, no, I can actually contribute to the representation by showing more bodies and shapes in our publication. Back in the day, that was not a thing. We went to the modeling agency for every single person that we were putting in a photo shoot. And that is not the case anymore.

Dana - 00:13:27:

Yeah. And I think that it's like such a glimpse into how much power and impact we have on our children. Like in that same way that what we were modeled as kids is what the perfect body was, what beauty was. Like we're modeling for our kids, this is what a healthy life is.

Jenna - 00:13:45:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:13:46:

And I think-

Jenna - 00:13:47:

It's all connected.

Dana - 00:13:48:

It's all connected. Like I think it's just, it's so much of our job is to show what the real world is, right? And so they have hopefully a healthy view on what it means to chase after your dream and be able to have family or not have a family. I mean, that's also perfectly fine for everyone out there that doesn't wanna have kids, but is shamed for that or shamed for working too hard or grinding too hard.

Jenna - 00:14:13:

Absolutely what I strive to do in my parenting. I feel like I do a lot better job on the social and the justice and the acceptance of everybody's aspects more so than accepting my own self. That's so true. And my own work life and all the things. So this whole experience of talking to you too has been a great reminder of all these things.

Dana - 00:14:35:

Yeah. Because we are so hard on ourselves. So hard on ourselves. And I joke all the time that like, you know, you see me and people, people think I have it together and I don't actually have it together at all. I'm like, I'm like, it's like 60% there. I have it together enough to do what I need to do. But there's like, there is like roller coaster moment, sure. Where you're just like, you know, in a pit and you're like, I can't get out of it or whatever. I joke all the time that like, I am actually, I'm not like an overly confident person. Like I'm very like self-deprecating. I'm always worried about failure. And I, and I really resonated when she was talking about how she felt there was an inequity between her and Travis, like that he was making all the money and she wasn't making any money. And so she felt like she had to do more and more, you know, to make up for like this inequity of things. And when we started, like that was for sure. I mean, I feel like I was just a financial drain on our family. And so. I never protected my time, but I always protected Sam's time. He never asked me to do it. And he never expected that. But I was so protective of his time that I would sacrifice my time, my business sometimes, to be there for the kids more or whatever. I wouldn't ask them unless I absolutely had to ask them to do something. And it created a really, really tough few years for us because I resented the shit out of them.

Jenna - 00:15:55:

Right.

Dana - 00:15:56:

Like I-

Jenna - 00:15:57:

Naturally.

Dana - 00:15:57:

Yes.

Jenna - 00:15:58:

Even though it's not his fault.

Dana - 00:15:59:

No. And so then, like, when it came out, like, we had this, like, huge, like, come to Jesus. And he's like, I've never asked you to do that. I've never, like, made you feel guilty about that. I've never, like any of that, right? And it was really, it was me. It was coming from me. And it was because I felt so worried about what I was doing and I wasn't confident that what I was doing was right. That I felt like I was always making a mistake in every aspect of work and parenting.

Jenna - 00:16:28:

I can so relate to everything you're saying. Well, I don't have a partner in that way, but just the self-doubt. I can absolutely relate. And I wasn't trying to say that there's not wonderful men partners out there. Absolutely there are. And I think way more so today than in the past. But it is, it's this, because of the culture, because of the way we were brought up, the culture we were raised in, where, oh my gosh, side note, Cece and I have been going through all these old sitcoms, you know, like, oh yeah, Full House and Family Matters, Sister, Sister, all the good ones. It's been so fun. They are all so sexist, so homophobic.

Dana - 00:17:17:

Yes. So homophobic.

Jenna - 00:17:17:

Oh my goodness. And just like traditional family where the mother cooks all the meals and the father has to put his feet up and have a beer at the end of the day. Maybe they don't show beer on that show. But I mean, we were raised in and that's what we saw, like just like the skinny bodies. Like that is what we saw. So we are putting a lot of this on ourselves. And I do think that there's great men out there who are being great partners, but I think, you know, they need to maybe step up a little more and go a little further out to let us know that we are just as important and our jobs are just as important.

Dana - 00:17:54:

And I think what's super interesting is she talked about having kind of like this family meeting and we do something similar. On Sunday nights, we go over the schedule and we kind of figure out who has to pick up who. We go over what's necessary. And, and we yes, for sure. Like he does his share. I do my share. We kind of make sense, like kind of talk about what makes sense for what's going on in our and work and whatnot. 90% of the time. probably like 100% of the time, I bring to the table all the information. It's not that he can do, it's that he won't do it and he'll remember it. He'll put it on his calendar. I don't have to remind him to do it, but I'm the one that knows it. And so even though I'm offloading it and offloading is so helpful. Do not get me wrong, I am very, very, very grateful and very lucky for the partner I have. But I think the difference is, and I'm curious, I would be curious to see what Megan, if that was her similar experience, that even as women, even if we have great partners, the expectation a lot of times is still that we carry all the information in our heads. And we can disperse it, we can delegate it. And then when you have a partner that can take that off, then you can literally let that go. But you, a lot of times, you are the one that has to bring it to the table. Gosh. Do you know what I mean?

Jenna - 00:19:11:

Yeah, I do. But what's coming to my head right now is, why have women over the centuries been boxed into, we're not the natural leaders? Because we are.

Dana - 00:19:23:

Because we are the natural leaders.

Jenna - 00:19:24:

We are. Absolutely.

Dana - 00:19:27:

100%. And I think that's really, like, there was an experiment I did, I think a year or so ago, I think I talked about it on the podcast, actually a couple of years ago. But I was overwhelmed and I had all this stuff. And I remember I just offloaded some things. I told Sam, I was like, I need for you to take care of these two things. I think it was getting the oil changed in our car before a trip and making a dentist appointment or something, right? And he said, sure, I'll do it. And so I just assumed it was getting done. Well, time comes on and it didn't get done. And he's like, I'll take care of it, I'll take care of it. And eventually I just made an appointment. And he's like, why'd you do that? And I was like, because you didn't do it. It didn't happen. He's like, I told you I was going to take care of it. And I was like, I know, but what you didn't understand, and maybe I wasn't clear, is that these things needed to happen by a certain time. Like the oil had to be changed before we get in a car to go to Florida for 600 miles.

Jenna - 00:20:16:

Right.

Dana - 00:20:17:

Right? Which is in three days. So, and it's just like-

Jenna - 00:20:21:

It's so funny.

Dana - 00:20:22:

And it wasn't like he was being dismissive. It's just that they don't, I really genuinely think, that men boys are not taught to see whole pictures. Maybe it's not how their brain works, I don't know. But they don't see the whole picture all the time. They just see these pieces of it and they don't know how to connect it. And it's funny, I've ever seen a man, I shouldn't say some men, this is like very generalistic. I'm not trying to be that way, but like I watched Sam cook dinner, for example, right? And we use recipes a lot. So whenever I have a recipe, I like read it once through, understand the concept. I get all the ingredients out, I prep everything, and then I read it, whatever. He's like doing it as he's reading it. So inevitably something gets missed every single time.

Jenna - 00:21:07:

I don't know, I can't really comment on that because I am not the cook. But it's like, I wasn't when I was married and I never will be.

Dana - 00:21:15:

But it's like such a good analogy of it's like, they try so hard and they do a good job. And with the product that they produce is good enough. But when you have a woman doing it or female or someone whose brain is wired that way, and maybe we should just generalize it that way, there's people that think in a holistic way and people who don't. They tend to carry all the weight. Because they think about it.

Jenna - 00:21:43:

Absolutely.

Dana - 00:21:43:

But I'm sure there's plenty of single dads out there that are killing it and carrying all the mental load.

Jenna - 00:21:50:

And maybe this upcoming generation is going to be fair.

Dana - 00:21:54:

I think they are.

Jenna - 00:21:55:

Because it really has so much to do with how we're raised and all the things that we're talking about today, what we're modeling for our children. And even just the concept of gender is shifting right now. So I really think that this upcoming generation could be a whole different ball game here.

Dana - 00:22:15:

Well, yeah, because I mean, you think about how we were raised. Like we, whenever we would chores were split up, we always had the dishes. We always had the bathrooms. Like my brother would have things like maybe vacuuming like the easy stuff, like the stuff that didn't require attention to detail.

Jenna - 00:22:30:

Yeah. Right. I mean, even today, I don't want to. I don't want to mow the lawn. That's why I live in a townhouse.

Dana - 00:22:35:

I don't want to do any of that, actually I don't.

Jenna - 00:22:38:

Maybe Cece will want to one day.

Dana - 00:22:40:

Maybe, maybe.

Jenna - 00:22:40:

Let's hope.

Dana - 00:22:41:

Yeah. All right. What was your best or your favorite personal takeaway?

Jenna - 00:22:45:

Oh, this one's easy for me. So when I asked the question about the teachable moment that your child has given, and her answer was so different than mine. Her answer was, You know, my child has taught me that they are okay. Without me being present every single second. I can go travel and I can work hard on my business. And he gets the time with his dad during that time and he's doing great. And he has even assured her of that. So I love that that was her answer because my instinct is to be back to the guilt, back to the, oh, Cece's noticing that I go to work after I put her to bed and she's noticing that I'm not getting enough rest. And it's all the self-deprecation and feeling so guilty that I've let that slip through and she has seen through my facade. So that to me was such a powerful, powerful answer and I loved it.

Dana - 00:23:47:

I know. And it's like something I just wanna, so I totally, I feel like it's so true that you worry so much about the things that, and kids, they don't worry about it. It's like, it goes back to even not to get political on anything, but when they're talking about, everyone's upset about, they talk about genders in school or whatnot. And I remember Ada was in, I think fourth grade or something and one of her friends, the very beginning of the school year, they had a conversation and they were like, what are your pronouns? Because they had a friend that was a they them. And so they all went around and said their pronouns and I was like, oh, well, what happened? She's like, nothing. She's like, we just said it and then that's how we talk to each other. That was the end of it.

Jenna - 00:24:33:

Right.

Dana - 00:24:34:

There wasn't any questions about why this one person wanted to be a they them. And in fact, there was one boy in our class that we've known since pre-K that he was gay. We've known it. It's very evident. And I was like, hey, and I asked a friend, what pronouns did this person want to be? And she's like, a he him? And I was just like, why? And she's like, he loves being a boy. He just likes other boys.

Jenna - 00:24:58:

I love it. I love it, yeah. It's so natural to them.

Dana - 00:25:02:

Yeah. And we worry about so much. The truth of it is kids are so much more perceptive, so much more wise, and they are typically OK. We worry about things we don't need to be worrying about all the time about them.

Jenna - 00:25:16:

However, it's presented to them. They are little sponges, so it can be dangerous too. But they absolutely, why would they judge that? Why should any of us vote?

Dana - 00:25:28:

Of course they don't. And the thing is, I think about it too, is I bet you Megan, when she said she would talk about it negatively, and he was just like, why? Because I know that he could see his mom loving what she does. Because I've seen her at a conference with him and how she interacts with people, and the way he looks at her. He's like... Like my mom is a badass.

Jenna - 00:25:50:

Oh, I love that.

Dana - 00:25:51:

You know what I mean? And so for him, he's like, Yeah, you're loving what you do. You're amazing at what you do. Why wouldn't you love to? We're fine.

Jenna - 00:26:00:

Yeah. All these things are taught. Judgment is taught. I guess maybe my guilt really does have to do with the fact that I'm judging myself, and I hope she doesn't see that. But Megan's answering was very inspiring in that way. Do you have any moments with your kids where you know that they see you for the badass you are?

Dana - 00:26:24:

Ada more than. Henry, yes. Henry is like my sweet little cherub child. He adores me, has forever. But he still kind of has those rose colored glasses on a little bit. But Ada, it's been neat this year. And her kind of experience about how she overheard Oliver talking about her, I've had that with her, with Ada. And just how she talks about me to her friends is like she thinks my job is super cool. She thinks I'm super cool. So that's been.

Jenna - 00:26:52:

That's great.

Dana - 00:26:53:

It's been great, yeah.

Jenna - 00:26:54:

Ugh. I remember a few years ago I have this little recording of Cece saying, I am going to be the first person in the family not to work for part of NC Weddings. And then a year or two later, now she's saying that she wants to.

Dana - 00:27:12:

Yeah, of course.

Jenna - 00:27:13:

So I've been proud of that.

Dana - 00:27:14:

That is awesome. To show them it's a life that is worth building. Yeah. I think it's really neat.

Jenna - 00:27:21:

Absolutely.

Dana - 00:27:23:

Well, my favorite person to go is actually what you said when I was talking about my story about Henry and you said to take power, like take power of it basically and be kind to yourself. I think that's great advice.

Jenna - 00:27:34:

I'm so glad. I mean, it is, that's a really hard thing to recognize and have to forgive yourself and give grace for. Yeah. Because, oh man, and I've been there too. Absolutely. Like I certainly am not always present. Despite years and years of work. And I feel like I'm always working on it, but you always have to because it's our instinct and the world and the culture and all the stimulation around us is constantly pulling us away from the present. So it is a natural thing, like it happened, but it really, I'm so sorry. I mean, it sucks.

Dana - 00:28:20:

It does suck, but I think it's, I love the advice because I think when you have these moments of where you have that regret and even if I can forgive myself for it, because I think I can forgive myself for it, because I don't want to live in a place where I can't recognize that there was some beauty that came out of it. But taking power over those memories and over those emotions and letting it be for what it was and being able to say like, yes, like this was hard, it was traumatic, it was sad. But at the end of the day, it's part of exactly right. It's part of who I am as a mom.

Jenna - 00:29:01:

Yeah. It's part of your journey and motherhood. I guess add a little bit to what I was saying. Like when Cece was an infant, I got divorced when she was only a few months old. I am well aware of the fact that kids pick up on energy. And I know she had to have picked up on my just, I was a wreck. crying all the time, like fully depressed. And in some ways I'm grateful that that happened before she has full memories, but I also have a bit of guilt because I feel like she must have, like some of that had to have seeped into her being too. Yeah. And even through the years, like I've had, very depressed times. And she's witnessed them. And I do think it's important to just be honest and talk to your kids about that and say, yeah, we're sad sometimes.

Dana - 00:29:54:

Yeah.

Jenna - 00:29:55:

I'm working on it.

Dana - 00:29:56:

I know.

Jenna - 00:29:56:

And you make me happy.

Dana - 00:29:57:

Yeah, great. I know. I totally agree. I think there's this, and I love this new age of parenting where it's transparency with our kids. Because our parents never were real with us. And there were so many times you look back and you talk about childhood trauma. And there is a point when I realized. They actually knew shit. Like not in a negative way, but just like how I feel like when every stage of life, you're like I don't know what to do. You can read a book, you can ask a friend but at the end of the day, you're winging it a lot. They were the same way. Of course. But I was told that in the way that they interacted with me was that they knew what they were doing, that they were right. And so being a parent and saying, like the kids will call me out on something, I'm like, yeah, it's probably right. It's true. Oh, yeah. But it's like because I don't want them to feel like I know everything because I'm a human, I'm going to make mistakes and I want them to give me the grace, you know, absolutely to make a mistake because I'm not going to get it right all the time.

Jenna - 00:31:00:

And it serves them well to be listened to and their opinion respected as well. I think my parents did a pretty good job with that. But absolutely, my perception of my parents at the age that I am at now, I don't feel like I thought they were. I feel like I still don't know what I'm doing. And yeah, like you said, I'm winging it every day. And I guess they were too, but in my head, they just, they had it all. They had all the answers. I know. They were such grownups.

Dana - 00:31:31:

I know. Okay, so we love to end on the fuck up that we have had with parenting. I feel like there are so many, but I guess one that really kind of is about, like I don't want to say work life balance, because we don't really believe in work life balance, work life integration, but like where you just really failed at doing that.

Jenna - 00:31:51:

Well, I feel like I've kind of been talking about all my fuck up, so. I think my answer is actually gonna be, yeah, all the things that I've been saying, like Cece calling me out on my own shit, but I'm gonna take the note from Megan and say, I'm gonna give myself grace, and I'm gonna lean more into my child and her ability to be okay and survive and just supporting that. Another one that I could just throw out there that I think everybody could probably relate to is like summer days or holidays or whenever there's no school and you do have work. And you're like, okay, I'm gonna like you have Aiden, they're doing math right now. I'm so impressed. Like I'll give Cece little projects and work and then, you know, she ends up on the TV.

Dana - 00:32:42:

Right.

Jenna - 00:32:43:

And I'm too, I don't wanna use the word lazy cause I'm trying to get away from that now, but yeah, I'm just like, oh. Like, I'll just let her.

Dana - 00:32:50:

It's easy.

Jenna - 00:32:51:

It's just easier that way. But I always feel bad about that.

Dana - 00:32:55:

You don't have to feel bad about that. It happens. And sometimes, like, you have to protect your time. And sometimes that means your kid has to watch TV to protect your time. That's OK.

Jenna - 00:33:05:

But we're taking the power back.

Dana - 00:33:06:

We're taking the power back. That's right. I would say, for me, the biggest one was the feeling that I had to be there all the time at work. So like, I think early on, especially because as a planner, you're selling yourself. And I'm such a people pleaser. And to the core, really, especially when it comes to my clients specifically, I felt like I had to say yes to every whim. And I had to show up at every moment. And there were things I didn't have to. I could have said no to. It's like, that's not in my contract. Or that's out of my scope of work. Or whatever. And so but what it did is it created this really unsustainable life where I missed everything. Yeah. I just missed so much. And it was a lie. And it was a really bone to contention with me and Sam. And I was like, but I have to be there. I have to do it. It's my business. It's my client. I have to be there. And he's like, you don't have to be there. And I was like, you don't understand. But looking back, he was right.

Jenna - 00:34:05:

Yeah.

Dana - 00:34:05:

I didn't have to be there.

Jenna - 00:34:06:

It is your business. So you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.

Dana - 00:34:10:

Right, yeah. And there was years of that. Years of just creating no boundaries. I couldn't be successful in any capacity. I wasn't a great parent. I wasn't a great partner. I wasn't a great planner. I wasn't a great business owner because I did not know how to create boundaries so I could be my whole self at these different places. I was just constantly torn all the time.

Jenna - 00:34:36:

I can so relate. Maybe it is our age. You're 39. I'm 40.

Dana - 00:34:41:

Yeah.

Jenna - 00:34:42:

Even the Social Media conversation we were having with Megan, like I... I felt a lot of that a few years back. I don't as much anymore. And I don't feel the need to be at every single event anymore. So maybe I'm on my way to being like Megan.

Dana - 00:35:01:

I know, being like Megan. That should be like our hashtag, be like Megan. I think that is so true. And I do think there is some truth in it. I think when someone was saying something like you're 30, like 20's, you're just like trying to figure it out. 30's, you're coming into your own. And 40's, you just don't give a fuck about anything. And I feel like that's really true. You're just kind of like, I am who I am and I'm not going to change. And I know more about myself and I know what's going to put me in that like deep dark depression. I know it's going to make me be happy. And you start making decisions based on those things.

Jenna - 00:35:31:

Before I turned 40, I created a kind of like a goal for my 40's and for this decade. And it really was all about that. Like just enjoying life, being present, all the things. But I will say it's not a magical switch. No matter what, it is always a journey and it's a constant. You must remind yourself of these things. In practice, it's always going to be work. But I think it does get a little bit easier. We become more wise as we age. Hopefully, if we're doing something right.

Dana - 00:36:03:

I love that episode. I thought Megan is amazing and such about us in general.

Jenna - 00:36:06:

She sure is. I know. It was a pleasure to chat with her and you.

Dana - 00:36:10:

Same, thanks for being our Honorary Sister.

Jenna - 00:36:12:

Thank you for having me. It truly has been an honor.

Dana - 00:36:25:

To learn more about our hustles, visit us on The Gram @canddevents, @thebradfordnc, @anthem.house, and @hustleandgather. And if you're interested in learning more about our speaking, training, or venue consulting, head to our website at hustleandgather.com.

Jenna - 00:36:40:

And to learn more about my hustle, visit us on Instagram at Heart of NC Weddings, plus our parent company, Triangle Media Partners, publishes lots of local community magazines and guides and has a digital agency. So to learn more about that, find us online at trianglemediapartners.com.

Dana - 00:37:00:

And if you love us and you love this show, we'd be more than honored if you left a rating and a review.

Jenna - 00:37:05:

This podcast is a production of Earfluence. I'm Jenna.

Dana - 00:37:09:

And I'm Dana.

Jenna - 00:37:10:

And we'll talk to you next time on Hustle and Gather.